well, I was thinking, Divinity 2 is such an amazing game, but it lacks realistic blood and gore, the fact that there are no Gibs it makes the killing a bit dull. no real excitement in killing the enemies, after the few hundred, it becomes boring and repetitive.

I was thinking, even though the game is not really that modable, is there a way to increase the blood a little, im no sadistic, but i really want to feel the kill !

I know that divinity has it in him, because while in Dragon Mode, when you kill those dragons, they fall and explodes gruesomely, even though i know thats its own internal animation for that model only, but the blood splatter is a sight to behold. I'm a developer myself so i know how this things work.

Now whats the point of all this, I though since "Larin Studios" is the developer, maybe they can come up with some sort of Addon to increase the blood, I know that gibs are out of question, so I just want more grusome death kills, Insane blood splatter, or exploding bodies (figuratively - with no gibs, just the blood).

if you provide the tools i think the fans can take care of it as well, but if you cant . . . how about a small addon that does all that ?

any thoughts ?

No,no,no, more gore and blood is NOT needed in this Game , or future games from Larian. If I want to see exploding boodies i will go play Fallout.

No thanks.

The lack of blood in this game is actually refreshing. Its a clean game

I wouldnt mind a choice. Honestly if its better than what Dragon Age looks like, it would be great.

Ugh. Dragon Age requires constantly being licked clean by my dog since Thedas doesn't seem to have discovered advanced technologies like baths or soap yet. And heaven knows what he's been licking beforehand...

But they do, it's magically placed at every load screen.

wow, i never thought anyone would disagree, I mean come one ! I dont wanna feel like im playing a 12 year olds game, but none the less, I dont want it forced, but available as an option.

I mean just for making the game a bit more clear, nor a wooden stick walking around a small and limited maps. the only cool feature is the dragon shapeshifting, other aspects are already in many other RPG games, just thinking about it makes me wanna play less . . .

though you have to admit, dragon age was truly an amazing game . . . I cant understand what people have against blood, it has nothing to do with being a savage or a blood thirsty demon, but just some realism.

anyway this is just my opinion so no need to mock.

I find the game and principal character too innocent to have blood and gore in it (but I loved it in AoC).

If it were an option I would not use it. I do not feel a game needs to show a head being lopped off in order to be fun to play. I had not even noticed the lack of blood and gore anyway.

What CoarseDragon said. If this is a must for somebody to fully enjoy the game then let's this be a option to easy turn on/off. div 2 is fun game without blood and brains splattering everywhere anyway.

I have to say I also enjoy this game without the gore. IMHO its completely unnecessary. The game focuses on immersive player to computer interaction and story. In fact, the expansion has so little fighting that you'd be bored to death if all you were looking for is blood and gore. This game isn't a FPS mixed with a RPG. There's plenty of those and they offer far more gore because fighting is an integral part of the gameplay. To me that makes this game more casual and it allows you to focus on problem (puzzle) solving and story.

In fact the most successful MMORPG has no gore and that's where a complain should really be levied. After all you're either chatting with other players or fighting (grinding) 95% of the time. That's a case where you need some additional oomph to liven it up.

As for the option to put in gore. What would you rather have developers spend time doing: put in a gore option or additional content? You can't have both. Its not like they're bored sitting around looking for something to do.

exactly. To me, too much blood and core take away from an otherwise great game. Take God of War for example, I love games about mythology, but God of War has so much blood and gore that the game is not enjoyable for me. Games don't need to be gruesome to be good.

lol. That's the first thing that popped into my head as well... God of War. You can't really blame the creators though. You get exactly what you pay for-- the title says it all.

I bought it anyways thinking that it wasn't as bad as I was being told. It was worse. LOL God of War is the gold standard for grotesque gameplay and blood.

Isn't it kinda obvious? More blood/gore/violence == higher age rating == less target auditory == less money.

That's certainly a good point; maybe add a /s

But I'd hate to think all creative decisions are business driven. Fortunately, I don't think that's the case you can still have "fun" death sequences without raising the age limit. The point... the game doesn't even ragdoll the enemies or have delayed corpse decay. I think we've discussed this before. My conclusion is isn't a purely technical limitation-- its just not important.

I specifically said "No Gibs" and that means no flying heads, limbs or anything else. because is it NOT possible at all in the game. I just want mod or modability for the game so i can make it myself, and maybe share it with those who want it.




Then you dont know of game marketing, 80% of Video game players are ABOVE 18 !! I know that cause I am part of a "game development team", and our marketer has shown me enough evidence on that matter to believe its authenticity. ask your self this! both witcher and dragon age had gore in them and yet both scored higher than divinity and had more copies sold !, heck! they even had sexual content, and adult language), so is the other way around.

you may not believe this but both games and cartoons were made for adults in the beginning, no one gave a rats ars about children, and frankly then dont even do now ! and in the end, if a game is made for either group (adult and children) in the end is the adult that has to buy it . . . so i guess what im trying to get at is that what you said is not at all true.


now back on the track, i just want the option available. no ? then let me make it ! there are plenty of Divinity 2 Nude mods out there (which by the way I hate nudity or sexual content in any game - thus those mods disgust me) so why there shouldn't be any blood mod ! the game is already defiled ! just give us the tools.

LoL, how I LOVE this kind of reasoning.

"It's fine when there is lot of blood and gibs in our games/movies, but naked breasts? Penis?! NO! What will children think? It's A LOT better for them to look at someone cutting another person in many bloody pieces than to see something they probably have already seen on their body or in some kind of porn. YES WE IS ZMART."
Typical christian/muslim/jewish behaviour, hopefully such kind of reasoning will be extinct by the end of this century, just like these religions.

Besides, defiled? While I don't use nude mods myself,how does nudity defile a game? Nudity defiles nothing, when used appropriately. While I agree this kind of stuff in games is a bit pointless, as usually games with nudity suck, this changes nothing. Humans like nudity, pornography etc., so it will be modded in - it's modded to almost all games. Just like it should be! I never use them, but I approve. If seeing a naked man/woman with big sword gives someone a boner, then let them go forth. I don't care about it and nobody should. Don't ever let yourself be stopped by stupid and false religions children, because if they do stop your hand, then you are as worthless as their teachings.
It's not nudity, but pointless gore that defiles delicate games. In L4D2, blowing heads to pieces is ok-ish, but it's not a delicate game like D2.

Besides, FANS make nude mods, not the creators (unless the content was already in and they just unlocked it... But it's impossible, because if it was so, then we'd have at least one romantic option, and probably some media would complain about it, like they don't have anything better to do...!). If they can mod a nude model in, they could probably mod gore and more blood too. Go annoy them, not Larian, who'd have to waste some money on pointless bloodshed in this game.

1.Fans made nude mod.
2.It means some kind of modding IS possible.
3.Ask them how they did it.
4.Do whatever you want yourself!
5.???
6.Profit from completely unfitting bloodshed in a lighthearted game!

Quoted for truth.

And.. nude mod?, for divinity ?? Some modders have too much free time.

ugh . . . here we go again, another know-it-all-muddler, i suggest some reading for next time you want to comment on something completely unrelated. are you so desperate that you want to express your scientifically-incorrect ideas in a mere game forum. you amuse me. anyway im not here to discuss religion or politics, so i wont stray off.

"Defiled" is a word "Ubisoft" uses for any of their games getting modded, if a game is modded is considered "breached" or "defiled", thus usually the DevTeam will release a tool to slightly overcome the hunger of fans . . .

Anyway, my point is, that the game itself already has LOADs of blood. like the Top Room of the phoenix inn where around 20 bodies are grusomely slaughtered with their blood all over the floor. or the concept of necromancy where you have to collect gibs to make you creature. so dont go telling me that this game has no blood or gore at all, nor that I-give-a-shit-about-the-children crap which was completely unrelated unrelated to the topic. I hope you dont represent an Atheist cause your reasoning brings them bad name . . . lets just pretend i didnt red your comment so I still can have a level of respect for atheist.

waste money ? do you even know anything of game development ? anything about the basic game marketing ? ow . . . wait !! i think i figured it out ! you are 12 ! that must be it ! you defend children (your age), your reasoning is 12, and you havent have the slightest idea of the very game you play. even if your not 12, you think like one, so i suggest next time if they asked you just tell them your 12 (even though your not)[saying it twice for emphasis]

now, i got tired of going over this topic. I think i now agree that this game is good as it is, implementing more blood and gore are not at all possible for the way they designed the game. adding more blood and gore is like adding a First-Person feature to Divinity. so I guess even if modding tools provided the answer will still be the same.

I guess now I get it, judging by the game itself (which has alot of static gore already - such as bloody bodies all over the game, or the bloody explosions when in dragon form). Larin truly wanted to add the blood and gore feature but they couldnt, thats why they decided to spice it up with those bloody bodies and rooms all over the game.

so . . . i think the problem is solved, even if they could, they wouldnt be able to. such as shame. but i guess the current level is good enough . . . now if this game was made with source engine, then we could have something interesting by our hands.

Defiled in your post sounded more like "Teh game can haz pronz if you downlood it! It's defiled!"



Okay, here I can agree. The game has loads of blood, but it's only in the background and "atrocities" are (almost) never done by the hero himself.

But you do kinda have a point. On the other side, such "atrocities" are in all RPG's, and I hardly remember blood spilling in, let's say, Gothic 3, which also was full of places with a lot of blood (usually caves). Blood during fight, in my opinion, depends on the heroes' innocence and graphical style. Beautiful scenery hardly fits with bloodshed.

[quote]waste money ? do you even know anything of game development ? anything about the basic game marketing ? ow . . . wait !! i think i figured it out ! you are 12 ! that must be it ! you defend children (your age), your reasoning is 12, and you havent have the slightest idea of the very game you play. even if your not 12, you think like one, so i suggest next time if they asked you just tell them your 12 (even though your not)[saying it twice for emphasis][/qoute]

I hardly see you saying any kind of specifics or solid argumentation, except "I think you are 12! Eez no game development!"

Yes, waste money. Even you should know that, programming anything in game, takes MONEY. Making bloodsplatters after kill, gore, heads falling off isn't put there by a wizard, someone has to DO IT. Add to it the fact that D2 ED was released on very tight budget... Why should Larian bother?

Besides, more gore means higher rating and higher rating means possibly less customers. If the game has too much gore, some countries (ever heard about Australia and L4D2?) may even be VERY, VERY annoying.

And stop pretending to be a game developer, I doubt anyone will fall for that.

Larian is not a pure gamedev. 90% of their profit they getting from TV media and kids games. Divinity series is like... a hobby. They have extra money - they can do shit. The only limitation is a time itself.

======================

Hmmm... actually, I just remembered that Larian mostly do education content for kids/TV, so, I guess, that could be some kind of explanation. Old habits never die ;P

I'm fine without it. It looks ridiculous in Dragon Age.

Ok, I was in hurry last two days, wasn't able to explain what I mean properly.

Let's see... the lack of blood and gore in Divinity 2 is explained by it's setting: it's a fairy tale. How much blood and gore do you see in fairy tales (well, ofc there are some crazy exceptions, but those just support the rule)? Just take a look @ Zandalor's comic clothes: starred robe, lol. The game has many similarities with Tarry Pratchett's universe.

The reasons of such setting.. well, I provided my opinion already: age rating and Larian's experience

It's just interesting...because most everything you killed in Divine Divinity left a corpse and a puddle of blood. I tend to favor it more than not, but honestly I didn't even notice it was missing Divinity II. Kills still felt like kills.

[quote]

Defiled in your post sounded more like "Teh game can haz pronz if you downlood it! It's defiled!"

Okay, here I can agree. The game has loads of blood, but it's only in the background and "atrocities" are (almost) never done by the hero himself.

But you do kinda have a point. On the other side, such "atrocities" are in all RPG's, and I hardly remember blood spilling in, let's say, Gothic 3, which also was full of places with a lot of blood (usually caves). Blood during fight, in my opinion, depends on the heroes' innocence and graphical style. Beautiful scenery hardly fits with bloodshed.[quote/]

now your starting to talk some sense, but now as I said, I was wrong.The game it self is not really that flexible, and the engine itself (raw) is not at all like that (fallout did some heavy changes on the engine to make it work). hence why the Elder Scrolls is changing the engine for skyrim.

I also agree the money issue, i cant believe i post that, i did a little google on the engine in the middle of the post so i forgot to delete that part, its quite hard to implement to this game, and as i said adding an Active blood and gore is like adding a first person feature to the game, and so thus it will need alot of money. (some games just have the tools prepared so you can do anything you want as far as the engine allows it.) so nevermind me on that one.

btw i never said i was a game developer. i said that you are not. but i think if you do a little google, you will get your answer. and also the answer as to why am i making such a request anyway. just go and google . . .

I admit that i was wrong on some accounts, I always thought that divinity 2 was made with a huge budget, but after seeing those numbers, i think its a miracle they pulled it off even this much. I really do.

now as to your comment on the fact that some countries bann those kinda games, now let me tell you how it goes, you see there is a list of items that need to be rated one by one, if a game fails to pass a certain number, then a certain country which accepts only a higher rating will refuse the game being in the country. L4D was called a pointless game of bloodshed with no real purpose, hence why some countries did not let it be released. but imagine some games like Dark Messiah, or Witcher, they had 2 versions, an American version with full blood and nudity, and a europian version with all censored. but having 2 version needs a budged Larian could not afford.

as to the character being innocent, i believe this is NOT innocence, this is just being a vegetable. like a mechanical robot, emotionless you walktrough the game doing whatever others told you (which *spolers - mostly is by a evil or super evil characters*) so i wont call that innocence. but i rather discuss this in another thread.

but in the end you should know that "THEY" wanted the blood, but could not implement it for obvious reasons you yourself pointed out. budget being the most important (or even the only main reason).

Eeeh?
"I know that cause I am part of a "game development team", and our marketer has shown me enough evidence on that matter to believe its authenticity."

A part of "game development team" = game developer, I think?



I understand, it's a shame that such a great serie of RPG's is so underrated. But on the other side, such lower sales are well deserved to anyone who names a game so stupidly (Divine Divinity? Really, Larian? If I was on your place, I'd fire that BUTCHER who came out with this name! If the game had a decent name, it would have much better sales!). If someone named Mass Effect, let's say, Effective Effect or Mass Massness, or KotOR Knights of The Old Oldness, nobody would probably even know about those games. Gears of Gear, Alive-Life... These names make about as much sense as Divine Divinity.



I mostly know it, but thanks anyway. ^^



I agree yet again, but the story has a nice explanation - state of the mind of main hero is weakened by that unfinished Dragon Slayer ritual.

And about innocence, well, it also depends, as I said. You can be evil too, but the game prefers you to be good or only sarcastic (doing things evil way = less experience), besides your evil has no real effect on the game.

At least FoV gives you a nice possibility to



I can partially agree. We do not know really what they wanted, but we know most certainly that blood wasn't their priority - not enough to put budget into it, especially since it was barely enough to even release the game in a playable state.

Larian's name for the game was "Divinity: Sword of Lies". The publisher forced them to change it to "Divine Divinity".

Good to know the butcher wasn't from Larian. Divinity:Sword of Lies is a neat title, especially compared to what we got. But, why would the publisher change name of their game to such a disgusting thing like Divine Divinity? It only decreased their sales, they lost on it! Larian was obviously cooperating with idiots and, hopefully, they aren't cooperating with them currently?.

Long story short - contract had Divinity: The Sword of Lies in it. Publisher revised it to Divinity: The Sword of Lies (working title). The day the contract was signed, we were informed the new name was going to be Divine Divinity, courtesy of the CEO who just made tons of cash with Sudden Strike and now figured that any new title needed to have an alliteration in it, or so we were told.

We told them that was a stupid idea. They didn't like us telling them it was a stupid idea and they were also the ones checking our milestones so eventually we had to shut up, especially when inevitably we were late with a particular milestone. End of story, the person who came up with it indeed had poor taste in names and I agree that it probably cost us a lot of sales - most people thought it was a porn game.

I think it's safe to say that publisher wasn't made up of very inspired people. I learnt later that there were only a few people in the company that believed our game had any chance at success, and since they were all experts in their fields (so they told us ), I remember I was feeling very nervous at the time. Never got any word of appreciation for the game we made either. Come to think of it, the only ones who ever showed a sign of appreciation for the end result were Focus, the publisher we're working with for DKS now. That's probably to do with our attitude, but that's another story

Maybe it is a stupid name (Divine Divinity), but if a game is so addictive and with a strong gameplay, I think not so much games make it so far like DD do :
after all the years it is published (in 2002, almost 10 years ago!!!) today new players begin to play this RPG that won many awards !!

In other words :
if a game is really good, bad title or not, a RPG gamer who read about it and discover that "it's his/her cup of tea", he/she will buy it
I never look ONLY to the title of a RPG. I look to the image (cover) and the text on the back of the cover, go looking on internet, talk to friends who talk about a game, etc ...

If only a title make sence on how much copies were sold ... hmmm ... I defenitely don't buy "Mass Effect" (I find it stupit name, even as New Vegas, ... , but that's also very subjective!)

But I can understand that a strong title can give a developer probably faster (more) money in the pocked (IF the game is also "good"!).

Just my point of view

WoW, that's probably first time I ever see a publisher answering so fast! That's very interesting. I'm impressed! ^^

Nice to hear that Focus is better than those publishers before. You did a great job with DD and Divinity 2 (can't say the same of BD ^^) and you should be praised for your work, because you deserve it.

They thought it was a... porn game? What?

...Oh wait, the cover really did have a girl which didn't have a lot of clothes... But... Seriously?

One would think the game would've sold more if people thought it was a porn game.

Note that DD had "stupid" name only for most of the western (english-speaking) ppl. Here, in Russia, Divine Divinity sounds like a music for the ears :P I never paid s much attention to the title, because I more care about the content. It's awesome.

Fully agree with Kein !

And to add this :
1) you see, in Russia the title Divine Divinity is not stupid for them (and also not for me!): so a "title" is SUBjective thing ! But to be honest I like also very much the title "Divinity: Sword of Lies". For me the content and screenshots + the fact that I had a wish (2004/2005) to play a real RPG made me buy DD !
2) Divine Divinity IS indeed "awesome" and imo a great masterpiece with an addictive replayability I never could imagine when I first discover DD !!

LOL, yeah, to us "Divine Divinity" just sounds weird. but as long as it is a good game, I could care less

yes, WE dont care about the name of the game since we are mostly adults or semi-adults, but the children, they care alot about names and junk like that, so the company practically lost all their "children" audience, even though the game was perfectly suited for them (no blood, no sexual content, and a story forcing you to be good-anyways).

maybe next time they chose something more relevant, for instance the title "Dragon Age" is more appropiated for this game than . . . um . . . dragon age itself ? since that game had dragons but never as serious as this one.

I'm sorry, but you speak pure bullcrap, mate.

Name like this puts off both adults and children alike. If a game is named THIS bad, you won't touch it unless you at least heard a good thing about it.

Divine Divinity, the one with horrible title, HAD blood. After killing enemies, blood splatters appeared in most of the cases.
Sexual content? You could go to Verdistis to the bar, and even do gay sex there. Much more possibilities than in Divinity 2.
Divine One was less forced to be good than The Dragon Knight, you could randomly attack most of citizens (except ones too important for the story), do things bad way too...

Besides, you contradict yourself yet again - now you complain about losing children audience, and before you said about how majority of players are adults.

I find you can't simply "generalize" it

I don't think ALL children and (semi)adults run away from a game if it have a certain kind of "title" ! Yes, there're such people who only read the title of a game and ... put it back.
But ther're also who watch screenshots, reading the content or doing both and more (I Hope!):
watching, thinking, reading, feeling, ..., and discover the game has also a Soul the dev's put in it (or not).

Im not contradicting, I said it might put some people off, some people wont play video games often, the grab a title or two every 2 or 3 years and try it out.

the post you talk about was about the fact that children are not a large demographic group in divinity sales. while in the last one im just stating how children are easily influenced. how can these two contradict each other ?

and what do you mean by "again" ? when did i contradict myself ? if you mean "that" post, the reason was that i sounded a bit like a douch, so i took back what i said just to prevent being what i hate the most, but in essence i did not lie. i believe i did give you the sources for it.

but enough of that, tell me, would the game be better if it had the same amount of content richness as divine divinity ? i mean with the blood and the sex and the . . . etc . . . ?

This is why I support you guys and gals. You keep in contact with your community, tell us interesting stories about what goes on inside of the industry, and you just happen to make some damn fine RPG titles! I really like hearing about what goes on between developers and publishers, though, as it's always an interesting read.

Who said this person was religious? Violence is different from nudity. It doesn't give lustful thoughts to children. Also, I'm pretty sure Christianity, Islam and Judaism shall continue on forever. Leave your anti religious beliefs of off the game forums please.

Regarding the topic:

I saw headless corpses in Divinity II, I saw burning corpses, I saw body parts ripped up and I saw dragons that when killed - unleashed blood and bones. Having an ability to turn blood on or off doesn't sound too bad.

I remember seeing slight blood falling from the enemy as I attacked them and I wouldn't mind more and I wouldn't mind if it stayed the way it was. Honestly though, in a game that isn't scared to show decapitated bodies, more blood could have been included and it would have actually given you the sense of victory after you performed a rather gory finishing move on an enemy.

Your'e right, it wasn't a contradiction as much as misunderstanding on my part. My apologies.

Romance/sex part, yes, blood part wouldn't influence much - even bodies dissapear after killing an enemy, so why should blood stay?



You know, some kinds of reasonings can give us an insight about who the person is, as some things are done or said by certain kinds of people. If you saw a man dressed in pink wearing a lipstick, wouldn't the first thing you think about him be "he's one of those flamboyant girly gays"? While it may not be true 100% times (who knows, maybe the guy lost a bet, or he just likes dressing like that), usually it is. He didn't disprove my "you're religious!" theory with "no, I'm an atheist" - I was correct, wasn't I?

I can say being 75% sure you're catholic (25% odds for Islam/Jew), who probably haven't read the bible even once - just like my parents did... And because of that you don't really know that your god isn't really a god of mercy, he's cruel and disgusting, far worse even than Hitler, Stalin and all the evil people included - at least nazi leader doesn't want to make anyone suffer forever for petty "crimes" (which aren't really crimes) such as masturbation, homosexualism, bad thoughts, not believing in his petty story with no proof and contradictions on lot of pages, etcetera.

Of course violence is different. Violence is full of bad things, and there's no bad things about sex/porn if you do everything right. If you prefer children to watch a man being torn in half by giantic saw, screaming as his intestines drop on the floor than to let them watch some porn, I say you're a sick person.

Lustful thoughts to children? And who says lustful thoughts are bad? Unless you're a psycho, it won't affect you in bad way - and if you're a psycho, then violent movies would affect you even worse. People get excited, people should... let themselves ease. Why not? It even helps with your health (you lose calories = you won't get fat = you are less prone to the heart diseases and mass of other sicknesses!), and I heard about other health merits of masturbation/sex.

So why exactly lust is bad? No, "god said so" won't work. No, "many peepls are slaves fer porn industry!" won't work, since some people just WANT to be watched and upload their videos for free/petty money, or they are professionals and probably live in villas for their effort... Etcetera



Agreed, but it would still take budget that was needed much more in other areas.

Me, I'm of the age of exactly 41 one now,

and I LOVE Drakensang 2 because it has NOT any gore or blood (at least until you zoom in very close) at all !!!

I know I'm at the rong side, but I'm actually very sick of the fact that i have to constantly defend myself because I DO NOT want ANY blood or ore in games - which makes me wonder what kind of people are those who force me to defend my taste ?

Me, I DO like light-hearted, colourful games with - if possible - no violence at all. (I come from the non-action adventure game genre, that's why).

And every time I tell someone on a forum I don't like Dragon Age for its blood and gore, I receive looks (I can feel that over their writing) as if I#m a 10 year old or as if I'm completely insane and should better spend the rest of my days in a rubber cell in some kind of "mental inanity hospital".

The current gaming world has evolved so,
that the darker, the more grim, the more bloody, the more grey, the moe muted colours, the more filled with hopelessness and despair a setting is,
the better.

No-one wants lighthearted fun anymore.

Everything HAS to be bad, bloody, an with the bowels hanging out of a scorched body, if possible. Or with blood fountains coming out of a body that is losing its had (his barbrian MMORPG, I forgot its name ...)

Blood and gore sells. The people want it. They want to be covered with it - I mean their charcters.
Me, I call THIS insanity.


Me, I'm currently playing Drakensang 2 for the third time.
And if this fashion in gaming goes on (it hasn't reached its peak yet), then this will be one of my last RPGs (still have to buy DKS, which I'll do of course during this year).


I quote myself from the official Drakensang forums :

I completely understand you! I also love lighthearted game from time to time.

There's not many games absolutely without violence... Besides dark world usually allows us to become the good ones, helping others. This also interests people.


Disagreed! Just look at Mario series, Sonic series and much more others.

Do you see any kind of violence in them? Nope. Are they some of the most well known games and best selling games? Of course! Are they loved by both adults and children? Most obviously!



Completely agreed!

Barbarian MMORPG I think is Conan the Barbarian? Didn't play this one.

I don't need any violence in my games to enjoy them if they're good. I agree with the part about insanity - especially when it's usually done by those same people who shout and cry their outrage when they see a naked nipple, or something that even indicates to sex.


And you certainly do have a point in your quote, but... Sometimes, we just want to vent our spleen, calm down - and some games fit better to this, usually violent ones.

But I agree, gore isn't needed in games as much as it lately is - only best of developers can make a message without heads going down.

And Larian is one of the best developers.

I mostly agree with you, Alrik (because I think gore isn't mandatory), but not with the "insanity" of violence-likers [in Fantasy worlds]. I mean, Fantasy isn't just a legacy of fairy tales (I won't even remind you some of them are pretty violent), but it also comes from epic tales (mainly when speaking about RPG). There are emotions some gamers look for that need violence to be fulfill. There is nothing wrong with that, you can call it catharsis or so, but it feels good.

Thought I prefer psychological violence (when watching a horror movie, I enjoy more the tension than the gore itself), I can understand their point of view. They don't want to recreate the violence of the world, but a fictional feeling that wouldn't be as strong without it. It's hard to explain, but it's how I feel it.

... anyway, I think Divinity II don't really need it. Laiken is good enought at it

*naughty boy deletes naughty post*

I kinda feel like this thread has run its course...

At least I didn't compare him to Hitler.

This is still a friendly video game forum, not a UFC/WWF match/

I thought Lar_q did a wonderful job diffusing this topic but seriously it needs to be locked. We don't need verbal violence to promote (virtual) physical violence.

lol, well put

Point taken, I was well out of order.

Thanks for the verbal spank.

If GabeN could now also state he was out of order with his religion-statement, we'll all be happy again. I mean, that was so typically atheist of him

Are you a big Dungeons and Dragons DragonLance fan? Man, I spent my entire teens, twenties and into my thirties playing pen and paper D'n'D, even DMed a DragonLance campaign for my friends. My memory is a bit hazy, but is your avatar Lord Soth?

A shame I can't see that "naughty" post!


And nope, I wasn't out of order. That's true what I said - if you approve of pointless torture forever for even petty crimes (or even for any kind of crimes... that's just wrong), you are a sick, cruel bastard.
Why do we punish criminals by putting them in prison? The answer is obvious - to improve them, so they don't do the same again (unless we know there is no chance - but even then we DON'T torture them...). Punishing FOREVER in horrible pain and suffering without any chance of redemption and improving is pointless and cruel - you can't be forgiven in hell.The punishment has no sense. You suffer forever because you... masturbated. Or had sex. Did something that hurts noone, yet is good for you.

But no, they want bread and circuses, and if someone disagrees they apparently enjoy making naughty posts! :*

Then you're an idiot. I don't believe in The Holy Trinity and thus I can't be Catholic. Never once did I call myself Catholic. I could be Buddhist, Jewish or even Muslim but you assume everyone who believes in God must be Christian because you hate them because they don't swear and don't want porn in games. I've read The Bible from start to finish and I've seen it proven with the archaeological evidence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artifacts_significant_to_the_Bible

This means that The Bible is indeed true and this means God is true. If God is real (which He is) that makes Him the moral lawgiver and if He proclaims paedophilia, homosexuality, murder and porn are wrong, who am I to judge Him? I think you'll find God is a loving God, He proved that with Jesus - His son who forgave adulterers, forgave those who killed Him, forgave the one who betrayed Him and forgave the ones who mocked Him and then died for us. That sounds like a very merciful and loving God to me. But once again, you're bringing religion back into this and I told you to leave it of off the game forums and since you attacked my religion, I had to defend it back.



Wow. You actually think the original poster wanted violence like that? Children see blood at early age when they cut themselves, to exclude it from a game for 12 year olds is just plain stupid but to include porn in a game for children is just plain sick. I never claimed to want intestines spilling out of my enemy when I kill him in Divinity II. I claimed that having some blood spill from the enemy, would make me feel immersion into the combat more. Having limbs flying everywhere would make the game an 18 and even Dragon Age didn't have that kind of violence.

Having some blood spill from an enemy when you attack them is hardly nothing and children see this at school when they get into fights, in programs on before the watershed and even in films that are aimed at children (not young, maybe 10 - 13 years of age).

Having nudity, sex scenes and sexual references in a game like Divinity II, just wouldn't be right. Nudity shouldn't be included in games like Divinity II regardless of morals here. Blood would make sense in Divinity II, nudity wouldn't. That's all that needs to be said. There are no romance sub plots so why should any nudity be in the game? Women never ran around medieval England naked (which if memory serves me correct, was against the law and still is) wielding a sword. So if we're being reasonable here, blood had more chance of making it into the next Divinity game than nudity.



This is completely untrue. Most porn stars are depressed. Can you give another reason why someone would degrade themselves for videos? Saying "because they WANT too" is poor logic. Next you will be trying to justify prostitution.

Anyway, how all of this stemmed from one man's wish for some blood in the game is beyond me.

Ha!

I hate them because they don't swear and don't want porn in games? Quote me saying that. Quote me saying I WANT porn in games. Quote me swearing.

Oh wait, you can't.




Contradictions are even on the very first page - world wasn't created about 15 thousand years ago, and it wasn't created in 7 days.

http://godisimaginary.com/i1.htm - read them all.

About morality, you failed too.

http://www.evilbible.com/Evil%20Bible%20Quotes.htm

God adores burnt sacrifices http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt66kbYmXXk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Your god adores killing and is completely false. Your god is morally inferior to you, so you can judge him. He's disgusting.

God contradicts himself in his choppy book, which proves he isn't unfallible if he by some sick chance exists - his book is worthless. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

Besides I attacked no religion - just pointed the truth about biblical god...

And I made a mistake, I wrote "catholic" but wanted to write christian. My apologies.



Read the posts I was answering to. It was mostly an example of what most "moralists" do.

No game for 12 years old would be released with porn, but... Seriously? It's a bit hypocrytical, because 12 year old can easily find it with writing one thing on the internet, even by accident. I myself, like 7 years ago (when I was 12) wrote something related to my homework on the internet and on google, I saw some porn images.

Porn can't be avoided and it's not bad in any way, so why prohibit something children will get and want to get anyway? I started watching it being 13, I hardly see any negative. Most of people do watch it around 11-14, no negative effects at all.

We're frisky creatures and it can't be helped - it's pleasurable, so do it.



Quote me saying I WANT nudity in Divinity 2. You can't yet again. Read carefully next time.

Quote me saying I want pornography in Divinity 2. I also stated there is even no romance plot here I think! Sex scenes like in ME2 could fit though without raising the rating, if they added something...




Most porn stars live in villas - is it untrue? No, it's truth.

I say yet again - some people WANT to be watched, some people release their amateur videos for free - they don't feel degraded by it, they WANT to do it. Is it untrue? No, it's truth.

You can't say "completely untrue" when you can't find untruth in my posts.

...Continuing the thought, some also want money from it (pornstars). If they are depressed, well why do I care, even normal actors get depressed all the time - it's just like that with famous people. If they don't want to do it then they shouldn't, why should I care?

Don't want to do it? Don't do it! It's that easy! No one is forcing you. Leave the business!

I wouldn't care if some movie actor got depressed and left the movies altogether either, unless I was his fan. So why making drama about thing that's pointless?

Besides, I also get depressed from time to time. Everyone does, either more or less.
Every kind of job can bring you depression.
So what, should be prohibit everything then? Great way of thinking, pal!

THIS IS A FORUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly!

Divinity = God, Godliness.

We just take the title to another level! We interpret Larian, as we're their biggest fans out there.

I've PMed it to you. I saved it in case I got into bother and had to defend myself to the mods.

Er, weren't we supposed to be discussing how cute and fluffy bunnies were or something?

Can't you quit it with all your gods discussion. The atheist I am is bored and would like to talk about blood and gore.

Someone said blood and gore ?

I really loved blood and gore in quake4 (and madworld ), I wouldn't like it in Divinity2. Why ? It doesn't fit the game. With all the puns (Gondolf the mage), the references (Eugene and his axe), a world where there is a nice necromancer, a farmer who loves his pigs and doesn't want them to die and be eaten, and most of all Bellegar Bellegar Bellegar, blood and gore would be out of place, in my opinion.

I never said you swore. Quote me saying that. Quote me saying that.

Oh wait, you can't.




Contradictions are not on the first page. You obviously don't know what a contradiction is do you? Instead of quoting and listening to atheist sites, actually read The Bible. A contradiction would be if The Bible claimed God (who I have proven to be real) created the world in 7 days and then later said that He created the world in 8 days. Can you point me to the contradiction in The Bible that says that? I didn't think so.



God likes burnt animal sacrifices. That's not evil. The false gods that people of the Middle East worshiped had humans sacrificed to them. God sent Israel's descendants to that land to kill them "After the LORD your God has driven them out before you, do not say to yourself, “The LORD has brought me here to take possession of this land because of my righteousness.” No, it is on account of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is going to drive them out before you."

Their acts are described as abominable. "They sacrifice their children.." and later we have Elijah asking God to send fire down from the Heavens to prove He exists and the followers of Ba'al are cutting themselves and asking Ba'al to show He exists. Ba'al never reveals Himself but God does and He doesn't demand death for that. Obviously you don't know what evil is do you?

Also, scientists have proven that Jews originated from the Middle East:

http://www.physorg.com/news195313667.html

This proves that humans didn't come from Africa as your false and unproven evolution would state.

Further more, you call The Bible "God's book" although it was written by Moses, King David, Elijah and the followers of Jesus. You obviously don't know much about The Bible do you?

And sorry but I lol'd @ this:


Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him. (James 5:14-15 ASV)

(This passage is evil because people who believe it may not get proper medical treatment for their sick children.)

The bold part is my best part. As far as I know, God forgiving sins doesn't make God evil and the passage can't be evil if it actually works and if it doesn't work, it's not evil either. Define evil, obviously the person who made that site can't.

After Googling that verse, I was presented with this site:

http://www.timeoutforgod.com/articles/Prayer_of_Faith.htm

It's coated in pink and the pictures are flowers. I guess the person who created it truly evil lol! This made my day.

That site can tell me alot about the person who made it. The colors, the decoration and the images all point towards someone who is peace loving. This woman has translated The Bible the true way which teaches peace. The people God killed are those that would rebel against peace. King David often sung how he wanted God to kill those who HATED PEACE and those are the people God killed and I agree with their deaths. If you hate peace - you make war.



You attacked three religions. Unlike you atheists, I have respect for all MAJOR ORGANIZED religions. Because unlike Satanism, Atheism and Raelism (all atheist religions) the major religions of this world don't call for the deaths of other people and even Islam teaches peace. I know this because I have friends and have met people from all major religions and they are all very nice people who don't wish violence on anyone. The lies you are reading from atheist sites are simply untrue and if you think true Muslims supported 9/11, then you're ignorant of the truth.

The best part is how you don't expect a debate on this. Did you think only 10 Christians in this world exist? Billions exist. Hopefully you think twice before insulting religions on a GAME FORUM. No one mentioned them so you didn't need to bring them up. To bring them up when no one is discussing them shows that you hold a deep hate for religions - specifically ones that worship God.

Even if you had attacked Judaism, Hinduism, Islam or Sikhism, I still would have defended them because from what I have seen personally. Religion changes men for the better. I've seen people give up lives of crime because of religions, so they can't be bad and when you list religious people who have killed, I'll list the rules in their religions that specifically tell them not to kill which means they never read their Koran, Torah, Bible or whatever a bit like you.




If a 12 year old wants to see porn then, they can view it on the web. Porn shouldn't be in a game because as I have proven - it's unrealistic for a Divinity II type of game. No one was mentioning moralists, the OP only expressed how he wanted some blood in the game.

Do a test - make a game and include nudity in it. It'll get an 18 rating. Put violence into the game and it'll get a 12 rating and up depending on the amount of blood. That's how it works and porn (lust) has a more powerful effect on the brain than the eyes seeing game violence.




I never claimed you wanted nudity but you were defending nudity in games.



It doesn't matter where they live. They are still depressed. Ever heard of the saying "money doesn't make you happy?" This saying came to be for a reason you know even though it's not true for some people but for most celebrities and porn stars, it is true. Money doesn't make you happy if you can't buy love with it.

Porn stars do all sorts of things that are degrading. No normal person would do that stuff, so instead of masturbating over their videos, you should feel sorry for them. Your logic "they WANT to be watched" only shows that they must have some insane fixation and should be helped.

Porn shouldn't be shown to kids. It'll make them view women as meat. Porn even does that to adults. If they want sex, they should experience it the NATURAL way. Porn has been scientifically proven to be bad for people and more people find themselves ending up hating sex after using porn whenever they get an urge. So no, if it has bad effects on the brain, then it shouldn't be used.

Look, I know I'm as guilty for doing it too, but you guys should really take this discussion to the off-topic forum where it belongs.

Just a friendly suggestion...

It's right here guys!

If you go there, you'll see that I've even started a little thread for you both.

+1 this thread has become way too off topic. no reason to bring religion into this.

mods need to lock this

LOLz.
"Mods... mods attack, they want they forums back!"

Amen to that.

But this thread has had its day, so let it be locked and fade away!

So sayeth Bellegar.