INTERACTION WITH OBJECTS
Here I'll show you just another bit from the Development of
The Discussion on the Interaction with Objects.
I'll show this discussion only as a part - to illustrate what weird thoughts we had and hhow the communication process was going on. No other parts are seemingly in my own collection.
The presented part of the discussion began at May, 18th, 2000 and ended May, 22nd, 2000.
Most names should be familiar to you - they all became characters in
The interesting thing is, that at that point Dante and Bronthion weren't working at Larian. They came to the team much later.Major Fatal :
Goodies on order!
I'am in a nice mood and hunger for some help, me and an other artist or burdened with the combinned object thing
(example take one potion mix it with the other get new potion, or nice explo!, or person put him on the rack get scroll of information,or wood together with hamer, nails and rope, make a bow,....and so on!
everything you can do with a mixture of objects!
the deal is like this, you name it! we make it!
So if you ever had the feeling damn it, it sure would be cool if you could do this with objects, or to have this....in a game but never saw it happen, consider it done!
but first you have to let me know about it and gues what the meaning of this topic is!
order now, one time oppertunity!!!
deal of the month, give two ideas get the third one for free! special ideas will come with free shipment! no scam garanteed, larian quality aproved treatment!
start your brainy processors and lets get ready to ruuuuuuuuumble ...
arrrg, i should never mixed those buffo's with the pschyco and instead stayed with the mentath's only!Anastasia :
well Lar should be happy with your hyperactivity I guess . You want to become ´employee of the month´, don´t you ?! Except for that you shouldn´t be burdened with such inferior BS. You should be working on ROOFS !!!
OK, let´s go on to the "ordering" part.
First of all: please make sure any object combination is not totally out of touch (except easter eggs), i.e. make it so that one CAN think it up. I don´t like these adventures where you can or have to combine an umbrella, a radio and a cup to create a car (little exaggerated). It should still make sense and at the same time be challenging. IMHO this should be the general rule.
2nd rule: let NPCs hint us at what is possible. In case one isn´t a hardcore adventure or RPG gamer it would get too hard.
Then make mixing potions easy. M&M is a good example here. You just have to rightclick one potion over another and that´s it -> Good.
Mixing incompatible potions should lead to them blowing up in your face.
A few more:
1) Let objects be affected by spells/magic and/or weapons. Would be cool to see a house´s interior smashed to pieces in combat.
2) Potion A + Potion B + a rag = Molotov cocktail
3) Poison + objects/weapons (is already in, isn´t it ?)
4) Pipe + weed = drug (bonus in combat or sth. like that) or Weed + paper = cigarette (effect is up to you)
5) Let us go fishing -> Wooden stick + string/rope + hook (or arrow) = fishing rod
6) Saw those bee hives in a screenshot. Let us use the sticky honey as glue (e.g. to repair items)
7) Ore + a fireplace = repair weapons (quality of repair depending on skill)
8) Knife + bamboo stick = flute
9) Water + hops + malt = beer
10) Graves + bucket + barrel + time = wine
11) Let us use chalk to mark our way in dungeons (paint the walls or the floor) or a long thread/string
12) In case we play a male char -> let us use chalk + female clothes to e.g. bewitch a guard that won´t let us pass
13) Stick + (white) scrap of cloth = ´peace´ flag to enter or sneak up on an enemy camp
Or paint + scrap of cloth = to fake an enemy or ally banner
14) Many many more. Can´t you give us a little more specific detail on what exactly you´re looking for ? An object list wouldn´t hurt as well . We don´t know what´s in so how are we supposed to know which combinations could be done ?Major Fatal :
yohoo, yep already you infest me with so many ideas!
Thats exactly what im looking for anastasia! things you mentioned there, (for the objects that already in (these are a lot) is not the problem), its the objects that i somehow forgotten that i'm worrying about.
And therefor this topic, and see it already started many of the objects mentioned by you i totally overseen like the (water hops malt=beer, knife bamboostick=flute,...
so keep rolling the honey flow,
it helps me great...Arhu :
4) Potions ok, but no drugs. Or take the consequences.
* wire, small piece of wood and cheese = mousetrap
Uh.. can't think something up right now, maybe later.
I think you should be able to create unique objects, objects nowhere else found in the game (as a reward for learning the alchemy talent).
The ingrediances should be kind of logical, but you should be able to get them (in a shop for a price, or in nature for a fight). A paralyzing potion/gas needs the poison from a giant spider for example. So if you can't buy it, the man in the alchemy shop should give you the hint to look in the cave nearby. For others you might need the eye of an eagle, a hair from a bear, certain plants, herbs or roots, or maybe something extraordinary like the blood of a vergin, etc.
Examples (please tell me if you need more hints for proper ingrediances, too):
* weapon poison (creme or liquid)
* gaseous poison
* creme that supresses all smell/odor (to fool animals, enemies who could scent you otherwise)
* target potions (increase long-range weapon skills)
* creme that increases the durability of weapons.
* itching powder
* paralysing powder
* acid, to open locks, for example
* powder/gas of hallucination
* healing of illnesses
* illuminating liquid (as replacements for a torch, or a torch spell)
* love potions (for a little romance in Divinity)
* glue, e.g. to block a door
* liquids to let metals rust (surprise for knights)
* exploding liquids
* potions for increased speed/invisibility/fire resistence/cold resistence
* gas of slow motion
* gas of fear and terror
* potion of shrinking
Bronthion, der dunkle Halb-Elf
Bronthion, the dark Half-ElfRagon der Magier :
Just briefly i have only those (which is quite (un)funny, because when i heard having this great oppurtunities of almost any object manipulating i thought, "Wow, cool feature, that´s how it should be" - and now this! ):
tie several ropes together for whatever purpose
tie a rope to s.th. for climbing over a wall or similar
tie rope to s.th., perhaps a cart or wagon to tow or other a gate to tear down
a ram or even building some out of several material (rope, yep again! , nails, wood of course, maybe cut from a nearby forest before)
(Hey i´m getting myself going )
You know? - it´s all about ropes!
Ragon, a mage wondering why nothing of his own profession will enter his mind
For now - until we meet again!
P.S.: Oh, not really "objecting" this one, but i hope there will be a clever journal, maps book and a spellbook where new spells can be inserted when found in written or other form, brings some atmosphere and to date all features discussed were more of general value. But now i think it´s time to support my own profession in a bit Patriarch :
Well I'm rather fond of twig technology.
a larger twig : a club
cord + twig + box : trap
cord + twig : a quite primitve bow
twig + hole : some security for your fingers
twigs + fire : a campfire
campfire + some more twigs : cooking place
some larger twigs + rope : a raft
hole in the ground + twigs : a larger trap
a large, straight twig + dagger : spear
thats all for now
never trust a smiling Dragon
1) Hammer + tomatoes = Ketchup = Fake blood -> could be used to play act like dead or badly wounded
2) Mouse traps + put them in your pocket/backpack -> to prevent NPC stealing (really good NPC thieves should still be able to steal)Tutamun :
What potions are there?
drugs -> decrease stats! Say no to drugs!
healing + mana potions -> heals and gives mana but not as effective as two seperate potions.
icrease strength (temporary) + poison -> explosion
two different poisons -> explosion
acid/poison + weapon -> rusty weapon (only for certain kinds of poison or acid based poisons)
salad + rabit -> happy bunny
mice/rats + cat -> happy cat, time to play
meat + carnivourous animal -> may calm down the animal? distract from you?
flowers + meat -> "poisoned" meat that leads to animals that eat it fall asleep (like in Monkey Island )
knife + string + stick + bowmaking skill -> bow (no nails required)
bird + ranged weapon -> feathers
knife + stick + arrowhead + string + feathers -> arrow
fire + metal + some form -> arrowhead, spearhead, small knife, (depends on form)
knife + string + spearhead + stick -> spear
knife + big bone -> club
no knife + big bone -> club
knife + small bone -> knife, arrowhead, spearhead, hook for fishing
dead animal + knife -> skin, food, bones
skin + knife (+ string) -> sling, bag, pants, anything made out of leather
sling + stone -> weapon
fire + arrow + wool + oil -> burning arrows
oil + fire -> burn baby burn
oil + water + fire -> Oh yeah! Place this in a house and watch soemone try to kill the fire with water
river + poison -> lots of food and no fish left in the river
flowers + ladies from sreenshot -> mariage
I think I'll have to stop now. Its late and my ideas start to get...Major Fatal :
Keep them coming!
All of you are a great help!Dante :
(The over evident ones: so evident that you guys did not mention it )
- weapon+animal (several times applying weapon to animal) -> meat
- empty bottle+liquid -> full bottle
- full bottle+person -> empty bottle
- person+horse -> mounted person (a lot quicker)
Okay, now for the serious ones:
- meat+fireplace -> food (I do not like to eat raw stuff)
- person+toilet -> ...(ahem)
-pen+paper -> note or letter (leave message for another guy)
- leather+needle&thread -> backpack
About the ropes:
- DEFINITELY implement the ideas of Ragon, and as well:
- tie someone up so you can save him for (interrogation) later (kinky ) or so he is found by the guards,...
- tied person+weapon = torture
- tied person+weapon = untie person (don't know how you will distinguish between the two)
BTW: tied person: can be carried
-water+person=wake up person
-furniture+doors or windows->blocked windows (to defend yourself against...)
-torch+some fire accelerator+something inflammable -> fire (burning down the house). Fire accelerators: burning oil, wax, paper (large quantities), magic powder (magnesium, dynamite,...)
-water+bucket+something in flames->stop fire, save the object
I would be careful in producing weapons. It is really a craft, for people spending their whole life making it, not for adventurer types. They can only repair. But, if you say, don't bother:
- sticks+metal+fireplace -> arrows
- club -> club (weapon)
- club+stone -> hammer (weapon)
- metal+fireplace+a lot of time -> sword
Difficult as well:
- tissue+needle&thread->clothes (to go in disguise, to dress up as a noble,...)
-tissue+iron+fireplace+LOTS of time->ring mail
- etc... (go to UO for ideas)
Again to the disguising stuff:
-specific clothing+person -> other attitudes of NPCs (LStory related)
- ashes/dirt/charcoil+person -> dirty/camouflaged person (detecting him gets more difficult)
- water+soap+dirty person->clean person
[This message has been edited by Dante (edited 19-05-2000).]Bobby :
>> Hammer + tomatoes = Ketchup = Fake blood -> could be used to play act like dead or badly wounded <<
Say Anastasia, isn't that kind of similar to the silly car example? Unless the tomatoes were especially resilient, you won't need a hammer, now would you.
>> club+stone -> hammer (weapon) <<
I guess this is assuming at least stone hammers are in the game. For an iron hammer it should be something different, such a club+iron to be consistent with your example.
Also, do you mean the club (weapon)? Wouldn't some form of thick pole do? Hell, why not make the pole yourself if you can't find one: with an axe and a knife and some skill.
>> cord + twig : a quite primitve bow <<
Do you mean one of those mini "stone" shooters? The cool thing (for Lar anyways) is that those can have unlimited ammo. There are plenty of stones, nuts and whatnot lying around. I expect this one to be implemented by now.
A minor complaint of mine to the ideas so far is that the combinations are too specific. It would be nice to think of alternate combinations as well, such as I have pointed out with making a hammer.
Even the tied person+weapon is too specific: what about nails, needles, feathers, chocolate .
As for having same combinations with different results: why not let an option box pop up and let us select which way to go.
[This message has been edited by Bobby (edited 19-05-2000).]Tutamun :
I really love this topic
Bamboo + feather/wool/cotton + needle -> blowpipe (=blasrohr?) (more effective if you put the needle in poison first... but then you should blow and not breathe in while using the blowpipe )
fishing rod + lake/river -> no fish or an old shoe
fishing rod + wurms/meat/bread + river -> fish
glass/mirror + stone/hammer -> broken glass
stone + hammer -> sand
water + herbs (+ food) -> tea/potion/poison/soup
notice + nail + hammer + door/wood -> notice nailed to door
pole + head of enemy ->
hair + spit + bone of an ancestor + doll -> voodoo doll
voodoo doll + needle -> ouch!
voodoo doll + fire -> OUCH!
water + priest -> holy water (that is if he blesses it) -or- wet and angry priest
apple + person + bow -> money from the spectators if the arrow sticks in the apple... otehrwise... run!
pig + apple/food -> happy pig
pig + (food + yeast/barm) -> exploding pig
pig + (food + broken glass) -> dead pig after a short while
meat/food + broken glass -> this is better than poison and much more painfull
flour + yeast + water + fire -> bread
gold + string + person -> annoy person by pulling gold away when he wants to pick it up
flowers + female -> positive attitude towards you
Carrying water or other liquids:
Bucket, flask, glass, ... get water from river, bucket with water, spring, ...
Burn baby burn:
straw/wood/oil/candle/torch/hair/clothes/fur/cotton/curtains + fire/burning object -> Object burns (Different objects take longer to start burniung and burn for different durations. Massive wood doesn't start to burn imediately if you hold a torch to it.)
Making your own weapons:
I consider making your own weapons only a gimmick. It's nice but it has no practical use. Without the appropriate skill in manufacturing weapons you would only get some sort of very simple weapon that doesn't do much damage. With the wrong wood and string your bow wouldn't even be able to shoot an arrow strong enough to hurt someone.
If you want to go for Ultima you would have to have different weapon making skills that improve if you use them often. For some weapons you would also need special equipment. Very hot fire (bellow) + anvil + hammer + tongs + iron to make a sword for example.
Breaking up Objects:
string + wood + knife -> bow + knife
But what if you want to use the string on something else? Can you take it off the bow again and get back string and wood. The wood could then be used to make fire.Tutamun :
Pat + Tut -> more ideas
rope + rope -> net
net + rope -> trap
net + river -> fish
net + river + bad luck -> wet hero *g*
spade + knife + poles + twigs + leaves -> trap
door + bucket + water -> fun
axe + trees + rope -> bridge
rope + tree + wood -> swing
Alix + Pat + Tut -> even more ideas
maize + torch -> popcorn
water + soap + guards -> good chance to escape
wood + candle/wax/tar -> torch
wagon + torch ->burning wagon
burning wagon + push + monsters -> a big messantx :
4 chairlegs + 2 boards + some nails -> the 17th chair!!!
sorry, couldn´t resist... ;-)
But the "hammer + tomatoes = ketchup" is cool. We´ll make a cutscene for that... >8-)Ragon der Magier :
Dagger + pen + parchment (+ reading/writing skill) + door -> notice daggered to door (remember "Hook"?!? )
empty vial + the specific recipe + listed ingred. + other, if necessary, tools (e.g. more vials, fire place, pots, alchemistic laboratorium) + appropriate skill (alchemy, herb lore) -> correspondent potion
For larger magic rituals (only in connection with a quest including a certain quest element requiring this ritual and at the same time providing necessities like a certain ritual place or point in time - "when the moon is half, and at the time of `blalba´ the demon of night" - or an important artefact which can be found during this special quest, in short all things that are not given in the rest of the game, so to speak are unique to this quest, not excluding them being part of a later installments of games, and thereby not for regular use basis like the other magic):
ritual knowledge + special places + point of time + paraphernalia + certain skill + magic NPC aid, maybe even a guild/group you have to convince to help w/ the ritual (perhaps involving them in the war initially, inciting future support by them, ya, maybe giving your main effort to save "Two-River-Land" the decisive tweak in your favour with that ).
Quest could be the banishment of a fearful and mighty demon invoked by a certain war party, devastating a certain area and filling the people with panic.
There will be a quest provider, adversary groups trying to stop the hero, NPC along the way aiding info or stuff ( refer to the above given) necessary for fulfilment of the quest etc. pp.
Oops, this went a bit out of topic - but then, i didn´t want to out Bobby as a liar...( )
net + branches -> fish trap (i like fish )
Ragon, the Mage
[This message has been edited by Ragon der Magier (edited 20-05-2000).]Ragon, der Magier :
Hey, thanx, antx (HOHO!)!
I knew there were tomatoes in, but Marian didn´t want to believe me, and said it were copper plates!
Hello Mr. Twig, Mr. Rope, Mr. Poisoner and Mr. Tomato! Hello everyone!
You're all crazy, y'know? Ok, I'll try to add some things.
* rope + bucket ~> well known aid to pull up water or other things out of wells. Or help careless children who fell into one of them... That is, supposed there are wells in villages.
* milk + container (eg small bowl) ~> Yummy.
* piece of wood + sharp carving tool ~> Figurine (for whatever purpose - sell? gift for someone?)
* huge block or similar things + door ~> block door (if no key is present) ... oh, just saw that Dante uses furniture for that..
* well + stones + more stones + even more stones ~> raise water...
* mouse + princess ~> scared princess
* long stick ~> primitive fighting staff...
* stick + metal chain + stick ~> some kind of weapon (forgot the name)
* rope or nails/hammer + broken fence etc. ~> repaired fence
* herbs/potions/antidote/healing spell + ill/injured/poisoned creature ~> healed creature (I want to heal others, including animals! )
* sticks + cords ~> ladder
* ropes or lianas + ropes or lianas ~> rope ladder
* sunflower + whatever ~> sunflower pips (?)
* sunflower pips, fir cones, a watering place or a magical flute + good heart ~> lure birds and other sweet little creatures. (I want to play with them...)
* moonstone/dream catcher + sleep ~> evoke dreams / catch them (what else? ~ fortune telling?)
* uh.. + hm.. + err.. + well.. ~> what?
Whew, recreation time.
ArhuMajor Fatal :
I think we just redefined development
(i mean who needs concepting if they have forum power! I say power to the forum, yeaa!
What basically means im very glad with the input here, keep them bringing in!
17 chairs, huh? so you mean the other 15,002 ones ar not in the game!?Risini Visinimi :
Here is somting smale I had time to thought off:
If you put broken glass into a tissue, it would make good for shooting whith a stone-sling! On Armor it wouldn't be effective, but on skin it would make mutchmore damage then a ball.
If you would put broken glass on the floor it would be a smal trap and it would make noises to walk over it. (Alarm)
Will you never forget how to laught!
Risini VisinimiDante :
Hey, that's right! In RPGs we sometimes kindof "boobytrapped" our camping place to be alerted of intruders without having to stand guard whole night. Something like:
- bells+rope+apply circular around camping place -> chance that the agressors trigger the bells
- spell: glyph of warding is possible too af course
Well...Ragon der Magier :
Ah yeah, Arhu!
I can see right before my eyes:
A sweet little white-cat is standing at an ocean´s shore. He shoves a huge stone (compared to the creatures small size) into it, then more stones, and even more stones...
Ya, i bet this will work!