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#254704 - 01/15/05 12:07 AM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: Nilrem]
LewsTherinKinslayer13 Offline
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Registered: 05/19/03
Posts: 8265
Loc: Seattle
Thank you for sharing.
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#254705 - 01/16/05 11:47 AM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: LewsTherinKinslayer13]
Lady_Rain Offline
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Registered: 04/20/04
Posts: 1737
Loc: GP - Gansters' Paradise
HL2 can be bought cracked already.... this was available since 3 days after the official release....

And yeah... most people had an absolute fit about having to download a 6MB authorisation everytime you want to play the game.... on a 56k dialup, it takes you longer to get the authorisation, than what you can stay alive for....
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#254706 - 03/05/05 11:21 AM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: Lady_Rain]
AlrikFassbauer Offline
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Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 19621
Loc: Rogue Squadron
I've read a few weeks ago that Starforce doen't work on Win xp 64 edition, tested by the German magazine " c't " .

I cannot find the article right now, but when, I'll quote it here.

Alrik.

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#254707 - 03/05/05 06:27 PM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: AlrikFassbauer]
Lady_Rain Offline
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Registered: 04/20/04
Posts: 1737
Loc: GP - Gansters' Paradise
Here is another link.

When i searched on the MS Beta site... Microsoft is aware of this... so i am sure that SF or MS will release a patch fixing this
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Your existence alone, is excuse enough for the creation of the entire universe… Il you my darling Jeanne-Dré 

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#254708 - 03/07/05 09:59 PM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: Lady_Rain]
AlrikFassbauer Offline
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Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 19621
Loc: Rogue Squadron
I don't know. I've read rumors that StarForce uses undocumented functions ... so it's rather a StarForce thing, I guess. Or MS makes something towards compatibility, especially with the content industry (for example publishrs) wanting protection for their media (like games).

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When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay….some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch

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#254709 - 03/08/05 07:03 PM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: AlrikFassbauer]
Lady_Rain Offline
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Registered: 04/20/04
Posts: 1737
Loc: GP - Gansters' Paradise
I have been following up on this...

The fact that MS removed the ability to use "low level" drivers (for security reasons - a lot of worms exploit these and also spyware tends to use this), there will be a effort between MS and SF to either create code to enable low level drivers, or to create a driver that is accepted by MS.
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#254710 - 03/11/05 10:36 AM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: Lady_Rain]
Lynn Offline



Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 3095
Loc: Ghent (Belgium)
Windows XP 64bit is currently not supported by StarForce.
After the official release of this operating system, this support will be implemented and a StarForce-patch will be released.
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#254711 - 03/17/05 10:35 AM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: Nilrem]
Stargazer Offline

member

Registered: 11/18/03
Posts: 192
Loc: North West, United Kingdom
Quote:

FOR THE LOVE A PETE!!!! STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT STAR FORCE ALREADY!!!!!
If your that pissy about freakin CD protections heres some advice..
wait till its been out a week.. Google variouse forums.. find out if it has StarForce..
THEN DON'T BUY IT!!!!!!!!



I haven't (and won't) be buying Beyond Divinity for this very reason (and I do *buy* all my games) - while there is a crack out now, it is awkward enough to implement that I would rather deny Larian my custom (and cash) as punishment for imposing this inconvenience.

However "suffering in silence" is not a good idea either. Publishers are quick to draw the wrong conclusions and will assume lost sales to be due to "warez" (i.e. the protection was not obnoxious enough), presentation (not enough swirly 3D bits) or star alignment. If we do not complain now, then it is quite possible that Divine Divinity 2 will demand your DNA for analysis on startup.

Quote:

Face the facts.. not all but the majority of complaints are from people tryin to scam the game..
Hope ya don't buy HL2 ya might flat out go into cardiac arrest over that one..



Those trying to "scam the game" will be hanging around on IRC, Usenet or warez forums, not posting on official ones where their IP address can be traced should the publisher decide to investigate. I would agree that HL2 is the most obnoxious example of a publisher disregarding their customers (who will be left with pretty drinks coasters should Valve's verification servers ever get shut off or discontinued). I won't touch it with a bargepole.

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#254712 - 04/14/05 11:02 AM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: Stargazer]
Plowking Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 948
Not to turn this into a half life 2 debate or anything, but my brother had bought it back when it was released last year when no one actually knew what was involved it getting it to work. He's got no net connection.

I advised him to return it as a protest but he kept it anyway with the belief that he'll get a net connection in a few weeks. Never happened.

He's only now got the game to work just 3 days ago...I helped him take his computer to a friends, decrypted the game, and he put the no steam connection crack on it. He bought the game, but needed a crack to play it...

Ironically, the harder they make it for the people to play the game because of copy protection, the more sales they'll lose, and the more people will actually get a cracked copy. So it could all backfire.

Also not to mention that the package for the game should have had a sufficent warning on the pack rather than a tiny note about net connection in the requirements...and even then it didn't say MUST have one!

Value didn't give a toss it would seem, as they made the sales...

I've never had a problem with starforce myself, though I prefer not to use the CD's all the time, and starforce makes that difficult...so I'd be more hesitant in buying a starforce protected game.

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#254713 - 04/14/05 03:41 PM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: Plowking]
Raze Offline



Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 24637
Loc: Canada
While you need to connect to the Steam server at least once, AFAIK you should be able to save the password and play in offline mode without an internet connection.

How To Make Steam Offline Mode Work, from Steam's FAQ

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#254714 - 10/30/05 06:39 PM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: Raze]
Sei_Daneic Offline
stranger

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 1
I dont know if starforce is the culprit, but I do know that everytime I tried to play Beyond Divinity, my cd burner died on me and I had to re format the computer to make it work again. This happened three times. I also remember having trouble with Daemon tools while it was installed. It may have been a coincidence, but since then I have not installed anything with starforce, and there hasnt been any similar problems after that.

There has been a few games that I have wanted after this that have had starforce with them and that alone has made me put the games back in the shelves. If Divine Divinity 2, wich I am very much looking foreward to , use starforce, then I will not buy Divinity 2 either.

I prime examle I heard somehwere on developers that took this seriously, is one of the Unreal games that after a wave of angry emails from gamers about the copy protection system, they shipped the game anew without any protection at all. (I dont have any proof if this is true though, it was told to me on a similar forum)

And as many people has said before me: Copy protection harms the buyers more than the pirates. Cracks for games are made most often the same day its released, so for the average game downloader, copy protection have no effect what so ever.

This at least is my thoughts on the subject.

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#254715 - 11/18/05 09:02 PM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: Sei_Daneic]
Sven1982 Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 1
Yep, starforce is known to screw up CD-RW of CD/DVD combo drives... it sucks.

And as far as the shielding with the EULA agreement goes: people have it all wrong... It doesn't matter how much civil contracts you make, as soon as a crime is commited (i.e. harm to your hardware of your pc, due to software not mentioned on the package), the producer can be held liable...

It's not because you give a man permission to kill you, that he can do it without punishment...

I wonder when the first customer will be pissed off enough to sue the company, and then you'll see all lawyers scrambling like madmen...


Oh, and another question: is larian giving lifetime guarantee on this game? I am legally allowed to make a single copy of the game for self use and as a back up. What happens if my cd gets damaged? Can I just send it back to larian for a new copy?


Edited by Sven1982 (11/18/05 09:06 PM)

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#254716 - 11/26/05 11:14 PM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: Sven1982]
dzx Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/26/05
Posts: 1
I've actually come accross starforce before.... Superpower 2.

I am pondering aquiring an older comp without cd/dvd rws for the purpose of running these types of ill-planned games that require such atrocious protection software.

Then again, if Starforce would not use code that renders reading of blank discs [or cd writer operation] impossible, then I wouldnt have too much of a problem with it...

... Also, looking back at some of the questions asked, it appears that some have gone unanswered...

Does Larian have a pre starforce game and if so do they know the amount of sales a pre starforce game generated vs a game with starforce?

In my opinion, the numbers should tell the truth. If you sell 100 of a prestarforce game and only 20 true sales of a starforce protected game, what does that tell you?

Kinda simple really, code the game without starforce and you get more profit.

There are alot of gamers out there [inc. myself] who simply dont want to be bothered wasting time with starfarce, whether cleaning it up or re installing. Its too time consuming and frustrating. I'm sure that some of you were gamers at one point or another, so you should know the frustrations of switching cds and the time installations take.

There are other ways to copy protect the software, like the most used way is some sort of encryption that prevents reading by writer software on one disc without going as far as starforce does. those games are moderately successful too.

Just wanted to offer up an opinion.

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#254717 - 11/27/05 03:01 AM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: dzx]
Raze Offline



Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 24637
Loc: Canada
Then again, if Starforce would not use code that renders reading of blank discs [or cd writer operation] impossible, then I wouldnt have too much of a problem with it...

I've had a CD-RW and DVD-RW drive installed in this computer (the second replaced the first), using Easy CD Creator and Nero respectively, and have not had any major problems with Starforce. I don't use the packet writing portion of either program, though.
After installing the ATA DVD-RW, Starforce decided it would no longer accept the BD play CD in the SCSI DVD-ROM drive, which is a little annoying, since the DVD-RW drive is louder and takes longer to spin up.

Larian can use the error report generated by Starforce to create a file that the copy protection can use to check your computer at startup, rather than the play CD, if it does not recognize and accept the drive or CD.


Does Larian have a pre starforce game

Divine Divinity used different copy protection. However, if there are significant differences between sales of the 2 games, it would be impossible to sort out the exact cause, since they also had different publishers, reviews, advertising, etc and were released with different games competing for shelf space and sales.

Sales of Beyond Divinity between different regions might be a little easier to compare, but the UK, North American and Australian publishers all went with Starforce.


Welcome to the forum.

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#254718 - 12/04/05 04:30 AM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: Raze]
Stargazer Offline

member

Registered: 11/18/03
Posts: 192
Loc: North West, United Kingdom
Quote:

After installing the ATA DVD-RW, Starforce decided it would no longer accept the BD play CD in the SCSI DVD-ROM drive, which is a little annoying, since the DVD-RW drive is louder and takes longer to spin up.



Starforce (and other CD-checks) will disable all SCSI CD/DVD-drives if an IDE drive is present. This is because virtual CD software emulates SCSI, so blocking SCSI drives is a more reliable method of countering them than trying to identify and blacklist individual programs. This disabling only occurs when an IDE drive is present to give games publishers' technical support a get-out clause: "Oh it's perfectly OK! You can just use your IDE drive!" and to avoid the legal problems that would occur with users who only have SCSI drives. If you disconnect your ATA drive, you should be able to use your DVD-ROM again.

It is pathetic that users should have to do this, but as long as snake-oil peddlers like Starforce can persuade guillible developers (Larian and others) that irritating their paying consumers, complicating their CD-production and paying for software drivers that no-one wants on their system is worth "protecting" against all those parrot-carrying, wooden-legged, argh-spouting pirates which apparently infest every corner of the Internet, then this nonsense will continue.

There is an extensive Starforce Petition thread on Fileforums and an Online Petition that people may wish to sign to register their dissatisfaction over this obnoxious software.

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#254719 - 12/04/05 08:16 AM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: Stargazer]
Morbo Offline

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Registered: 08/09/03
Posts: 4193
Loc: Omicron Persei 8
@Stargazer: The copy protection was forced on them by the publisher.
@Stargazer˛: Also not a fan of Starforce (used to run xp 64bit)

Btw does any one know if BD will be playable with Windows Vista (thinking of going Vista bčta on my pc).
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#254720 - 01/08/06 10:08 PM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: Morbo]
13thHouR Offline
stranger

Registered: 01/08/06
Posts: 1
Oddly enough I can not find any reference in this Starforce FAQ that the Star force Virtual IDE protection Drivers:

1. Open up Ring 0 access to Ring 3 users on XP. (This basically allows any third party application, trojan, viri. Full super user access to your system as a level which is of higher control than your Anti Virus/ Anti Spy ware or Software Firewall.

2. Those of you that are aware of XP's DMA issue will also be aware that anything that interferes with the packet transfer during the reading or writing of a CD/DVD will cause XP to read this as an error. The results of which, each time this occurs XP steps down the DMA speed until it eventually reverts to 16 Bit access. Rendering the drive virtually unusable. Virtual Drives such as those used in Nero will trigger this if starforce is installed.Uninstalling the CD/DVD drivers and the IDE controllers from the Devive Manager and rebooting will normally cure this, however if star force is still present then on certain chipsets the device manager will not find your HDD or CD/DVD drives. Making it appear as if they have failed working. In some extreme circumstances mainly combo drives this stepping down can cause actual hardware failure.

3. The EULA does not cover malicious intent. Starforce are aware of the two previous issues yet have done very little to resolve them. Excluding trying to claim they do not exist.

I would point out that I am a developer with 25 years experience in the business. So when I make comments I make very sure I have fully researched what I am talking about.







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#254721 - 01/09/06 04:19 AM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: 13thHouR]
Lady_Rain Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/20/04
Posts: 1737
Loc: GP - Gansters' Paradise
welcome to the forum

Thanks for that info... i dont think that most of us knew that...

Unfortunately there is not much we can do about that now... other than to make sure that the next game dont use starforce...

And after all the complaints and issues that Larian got... they are not likely to use starforce for a while.
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Your existence alone, is excuse enough for the creation of the entire universe… Il you my darling Jeanne-Dré 

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#254722 - 02/22/06 06:32 PM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: Lady_Rain]
TheDivine Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 743
Plz Larian! Don't use SF for DD2, all gaming forums i know have a thread complaining about starforce, I think it will cause seriously less sales. Just dont use a publisher wich forces you to use that couse that is just lame of them
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#254723 - 08/31/06 10:02 PM Re: StarForce FAQ [Re: Morbo]
MysterD Offline
addict

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 542
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Quote:

@Stargazer: The copy protection was forced on them by the publisher.
@Stargazer˛: Also not a fan of Starforce (used to run xp 64bit)

Btw does any one know if BD will be playable with Windows Vista (thinking of going Vista bčta on my pc).




I should warn you -- there was a website that tried running Splinter Cell 3, which is StarForce equipped, on Vista -- and a bunch of other games back in an article from May 30, 2006. The StarForce game DID NOT work on Vista: Beta 2.

StarForce is very driver-specific -- so, likely if we're going to get StarForce games to work on Vista, StarForce will have to update their drivers for Vista or Microsoft would have to do something w/ Vista to get SF-based games going. Chances are: I'd bet SF would have to update their drivers.

Some companies have gone the route of removing their SF-based drivers from their games -- such as Egosoft removed them for X2, yet now they are planning a patch for X3: Reunion that will remove them for later this year from X3.

I really hope that Larian would do the same and remove SF from their BD game in a patch, so my copy of BD can actually have a future and run on Vista, if I so choose to in the future...

For more info, look below on the problems SF has w/ Vista Beta 2:

Link 1 -- 1Up's news on StarForce games not working on Vista Beta 2:
Click here!

Link 2 -- ExtremeTech testing some games on Vista Beta 2:
Click here!!



Edited by MysterD (08/31/06 10:04 PM)

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