Larian Studios Forums Divinity 2 - Ego Draconis (English) Divinity 2 - Ego Draconis Stunned...

I think there was a poll about consoles, yes. But I never had any dout that the game would be for PC as well.

LOL my bad translation is being quoted <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
If I knew that in advance I would've done a better job...

DNF, anyone??? :P
Yeah, still waiting on that one.

STALKER anyone? :P
Though, STALKER, in the long run, still somehow turned out great.

Max Payne (the original) anyone?? :P
Yup, it was talked about majorly before it was done, then disappeared for a LONG TIME. Eventually, the game just dropped -- and once it did, it lit a fire. Somehow, it turned out great.



Yeah, we saw where that got Peter Molyneux w/ Fable and the original Black & White, since many people were not too happy w/ a lot of content Peter speak in interviews before the games were done, which mentioned a lot of content that never made the final cuts of both games.

Regardless of what was cut and what wasn't, I throughly enjoyed Fable: TLC (PC version). It was still great.

Duke Nukem Forever was mainly what I was thinking, D, yeah. I know that's an extreme example, but it's become a running joke because they started plugging the game far, far too soon.

Thanks for the other examples <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And don't forget Grimoire Forever as well. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

What game? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Übereil

Btw, now that we've seen the new video, what kinda system do you think would be able to run DD2? Would a 8800gt/9800GX2 card and Core 2 Quad and 2 to 4 gb of ram be neccessary to run it at medium to high settings? I hope not. -__-;; Most of that gig seems seriously over-powered and sounds more like a waste of electricity.

Btw, who's doing the plot in DD2? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You guys have some great ideas but they need a lot of fleshing out if you want to have a good, coherent plot.

Will fans names still grace NPCs?

I bet so.

Also, we need at least three memorials in the game for forummembers who have died.

Hi all,

It's good to see there's still so many people following what we're doing. I didn't expect you to react so strongly to the little tid-bit that was shown in the show, so maybe some clarification about what happened can help.

In Belgium, there's a debate going on about the government helping out game developers. Being one of the larger studios in Belgium, we were given the opportunity to give our thoughts on the matter. To be fair, we didn't expect so much game footage to be used on TV (it was recorded in the afternoon,broadcast in the evening and we only knew about it in the morning, so it took us all a bit by surprise).

We allowed the camera crew to take some development footage to underline to our local politicians that there are studios, in Belgium, who are seriously busy with games. Our goal is to have them do something about the unfair competition caused by other governments granting large subsidies in neighbouring countries. That's all there is to it.

It definitely wasn't the intention to release information about the game, for that it's still too soon. Not that I wouldn't want to talk about it, but there'll be plenty of opportunity to do so in the not so distant future.

There's a variety of reasons on why it would be counter-productive for the success and quality of our game to announce things prematurely, and I hope you can understand that. Some of these were already mentioned in this thread and are very valid.

But, we are fully in production, working towards a target, and if all goes well, it shouldn't take that long (heard that before ? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> ) before we can finally share with you the details of this thing we're trying to make.

The shots you saw were by the way work in progress, just in case you were wondering.

Lar

Well, that's to be expected. Even though I registered only a few months ago, all that excitement has made me spin.

Aha... so, the press leaked more than they were supposed to, eh?

Hmmm... it's good that the government has some interest in helping game developers(or are they not?). In some countries, they still want to restrict, censor and control the game process hence all the talented folks flee to other countries instead.

Ah well, I hope that someone will post a rough summary of what's being discussed in the video. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Aha... so what this means is that the large subsidies make games like Witcher cheaper to create and which at the same time, benefits their local economy? However, 'cos it's really expensive in Belgium to create a game, so you find yourselves questioning whether said feature should be cut/trimmed down? Or basically, the game dev studio might actually move to another country so it hurts the local market, right?

That's very true. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> There're many games where the devs prefer to keep mum for fear of overhyping things: these days, it's too easy for rumors and gossip to distort the entire game experience before anyone has tried it.

Understood. Too much hype causes fans and players to expect features that actually depart heavily from the designers' and director's vision.



Woo yeah! I'm excited about the game in general. Though I'm confident Larian has learnt from the issues in the previous games. Though it's awesome you've got a target and are working towards it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Personally, I think it has just begun.

In Germany, the idea is still relatively new, but I don't know about other countries.

In my opinion, each country should have its own possibilioties to support this kind of business, since I believe that every country has its own culturally influenced approach on computing/software/whatever.

Imho it would just add to the diversity.

I don't quite understand why a computergame developer should be subsidised by a government. But I find it hard to think of some examples. What kind of company gets subsidised right now that is similar to a gamedeveloper? Creators of art are in a way (in Holland anyway, they don't pay taxes over their sales), but somehow I can't see a game as a piece of art. It is not intended as art anyway. It is intended to entertain. Does Hasbro gets subsidised for her games (Risk for example)?
Or is it only because 'other (the French) governments subsidise, and thus the Belgium government should subsidise to'.

Also, I can understand that less talent is wasted if you (as a government) invest (or subsidise) in programming companies. For the same reasons farmaceutical companies or universities or sport associations (what's the word...) are subsidised. But they either benefit a lot more people or benefit the general population of a country. There are only a few hundred 'gameprogrammers' in a (European) country and games do not benefit the general population immediately (they entertain, but the line 'I love my government, because at least they keep me entertained' does not strike me as intelligent <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> )

But I like RPG's, I liked DD and I like to see DD2, so extra money to help Larian is always welcome.

[color:"orange"]What kind of company gets subsidised right now that is similar to a gamedeveloper?[/color]

Movie and TV studios get tax breaks to attract them to certain cities / countries.
In general, there are all kinds of companies that get tax breaks or other subsidies to move to or stay in certain areas, or to help a fledgling or struggling industry.


[color:"orange"]Or is it only because 'other (the French) governments subsidise, and thus the Belgium government should subsidise to'.[/color]

It is more that other countries giving tax breaks gives Belgium a disadvantage when it comes to attracting investment or publishers.

Foetsy: That's probably 'cos gaming is now a large market so many countries are trying to cash in on it so they can earn the big bucks. So, to the gov. it's the right time to cash in.

Oh and not to mention national pride and stuff. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

the games-industry is a huge pie, and Belgium wants a piece of it.

Not art? 3D, 2D, Sketch, Texture _Artists_..., writers, actors (voiceovers) all make games very artsy.

the film industry is getting subsidies too so thats one similar example to a gamedeveloper.
Then most countrys have something like a public broadcasting service (BBC in the UK, VRT in belgium, ...)
What art is is somewhat open for debate, but imo games (not all of them) are art too. I mean some games have their own races with own cultures (unique building styles and artworks and stuff). Films are considered art too. And one could look at games as if they were some sort of interactive film.

And apparently flemish (or belgian) developers need that extra cash to stay competitive, so there are economic reasons for it too. The interview states that the gaming industry is a booming-business so if we (the flemish) want a piece of the pie, we have to invest in it too.


Someone didn't pay alot of attention in his history class <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
I'm not trying to offend you but it looks as if you didn't give that much thought. What made the people of ancient rome like their emperors ?
Entertainment! In the form of Panem et circenses (Bread and games)
And why do you think that almost the entire world (with the exception of the United States) has public broadcast ? Entertaining the masses!
Entertainment was (and most likely still is) needed to keep the people from revolting. So imo it makes alot of sense that the government helps providing entertainment. (in the form of financially supporting those that can entertain us)


One thing I do agree with <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Govts tend to support home grown industries because it has a positive effect on their economies to keep people in employment. Manufacturing industries generate revenue, and better yet if those industries are good for export, too.

Money coming into the country always beats money out, and a positive trade balance makes for a richer nation.

So it does make sense <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Can a computer game be considered as a piece of art ?

Interesting question that divides lots of people around me, and I'd like to say a little word here if you allow me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Certainly nobody would deny the first goal of computer games is entertainment. But sometimes we tend to forget that games - and computer technology more generally speaking - is a new medium that recently appeared in the human history, and it's a medium which is starting to get into its mature state.
What is annoying with "Art" nowadays, is that the rules which define it became less obvious and more blurry to grasp. Do you consider cuisine as art ? Many would agree to say yes. But isn't the act of cooking in the absolute just a simple daily task to assure our surviving ?
When can we start to say something is artistic, when it is not ? We usually tend to underestimate what is new. New mediums are generally depreciated, because it changes habits.
In the early 19 century when photography was invented and started to get popular, traditional painters who used to have the first credit for artistic productions in it's daily basis, raised scandals. People who wanted their family portraits as faithful to reality as possible would get them more realistic on a photo than a painter could ever paint them. So to speak, photography was killing art. It was just a cold and emotionless imitation of nature ! Now look where we are. Photography is widely considered as art as well as cinema (which is basically just a succession of photos). Why ?
Because the opinions evolved. Minds opened to new ways of using this tool that was the camera. They used it in a way to push back the boundaries of art further than it was with painted canvas and more ancient techniques(attention, I am not saying that photography is a superior medium than painting. Just that it is a different medium, thus implying different ways of using it that will allow more discoveries in the field of art in general). But what is good in art, is that a medium NEVER replaces an older one, because the purpose is not the apology of the medium but... well Art itself (and what is Art? I don't want to enter that endless philosophical debate, that's another story <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />)

To come back to my question: 'can we call computer games art ?' I would answer: 'Certainly'. Of course, if you take a look at the game industry, it is in the big majority composed of entertaining games and crap <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> However it is possible to make art out of a game. The efforts spent to manage huge amount of money, people dedicating usually 3-4 years of their life to make a big project come true, like ingredients you mix and stir in a big pan for hours to get this incredible tasty dish like mother used to do it (and god knows how easy it is to fail it), all of that is just so formidable -when it is succeeded- because it's creates stories, emotions, dreams, it transfers messages, experiences... like a piece of art would do. That's what matters, if after playing a game you feel literally transcended (it only happened once or twice in my player experience), the game really changed your way to see things durably in the real life, you might call that art. That's what art do, in my opinion, to change your perspective and way to look at things in life.

Currently games still have way to go before reaching a status of recognized art, but I'm confident it will be so one day. This is just what I think, but I hope other people do feel the same way as me...

Jesus, I talked too much and it's already 2 am ! Quickly come here my bed <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

True. And if I may add: This feeling has nothing to do with how much money and manpower you put into the game. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pong for example is art in my opinion... it's very abstract and reductive but in its simplicity it not only sort of created the whole industry but also dramatically changed the people's view on the matter.

Another piece of art for me is "Another World/Out of this World". Again, it's rather simplified but still beautifully crafted, offering stunning audiovisual elements never seen before in that form.

Basically, if I think of computer games as art, I don't think about revolutionary technical aspects... that can help but in many cases it doesn't because it is regarded as the main part of a game. Bioshock is a good example... or Crysis... good games, with big budgets... but they don't leave the player (more precisely: me) in awe. Only very few games managed to do that, one of them my often used example Max Payne 2. Or Fahrenheit for example with its new kind of presenting the actions and drawing the player into the story itself.

And those are the games I want... I am sure DivDiv2 will be a great game but I have my doubts that it will be a game which I can call art. That's nothing bad of course and frankly, it's very difficult to create outstanding artsy games which dares to present a revolution in some aspect of the product.