We have something to announce, something we've been working on for almost two years. It will almost certainly come as a surprise, but we think you might be happy about what it is...
Resume the role of The Divine One - one of the best protagonists in an RPG series - and wipe the floor with Damien's ungodly butt.
Come on Larian. It better be Divinity 3 or I'll storm those offices of yours and throw large amounts of money into your faces until you make it happen.
Male Divine One and Female Dragon Knight holding hands actually.
No?
No.
I thought that it was Ygerna and Damien at first but I later thought against it. Would Larian really resurrect Ygerna for Divinity 3? It would destroy the ending of Flames of Vengeance really and its name sake. You wouldn't really have had revenge if she's still running about with Damien.
I suppose Larian could implement it but somehow I doubt it's her. There's definitely something sinister about the picture. For one we have that red crack which looks like he's a rip in the dimension and then we have the two figures which are shaded whereas everything else is colored and clear.
Maybe the Beyond Divinity hero is back and he's pissed off because Larian hasn't mentioned him since 2004. He's trying to destroy the game itself and attempts to break the forth wall to kill the player and then hunt Larian down for "forgetting" him.
It has not been confirmed that Project E is Divinity 3, though so far what we know fits that assumption.
I also thought of Damian and Ygerna seeing the concept art, at least partly because there aren't really any other couples involved in the story so far. If it is them, rather than some new ominous-looking couple, the game could be set between Divine Divinity and Beyond Divinity. Damian was 15 when Ygerna was executed, though, and they had only known each other for a couple weeks, so that isn't a lot of time to fit in an RPG (which would need to avoid effecting the established story line). If set after DKS, there would have to be an explanation for Damian (presumably) being able to resurrect Ygerna when he was unable to do so before (maybe because the dragon knight's resurrection and re-killing broke the soul forge, or something). It could be set before DKS, so Ygerna was a ghost, but would have to end with her stuck in the Hall of Echoes and unable to communicate with Damian. Other than aspects of the ending already being establish, there would be lots of flexibility in the world and story before DKS to set another RPG.
We know you will be able to defeat the main bad guy at the end of Project E, so that limits the plot if the game is set before DKS (the bad guy has to be someone other than Damian, or you play as Damian, and the 'bad guy' is the Divine One).
My Favorite RPGs: Divinity franchise, Gothic franchise (including Arcania, so I think I'm alone...), Venetica, Risen, Two Worlds II, The Witcher, Sacred franchise, Fallout franchise, Mass Effect 1, Alpha Protocol, Planescape: Torment, Drakensang, KOTOR 1 & 2, etc.
I thought that as well; maybe the rip / crack in the ground running between them symbolises them being torn apart from each other i.e when Ygerna was slain at the end of Flames of Vengeance. Could be, as Virumor said, part of a cutscene explaining the backstory.
At least it's confirmed that its a Divnity game and if going by the Blog posts it will continue the story so hence I think it's Divinity 3.
Last edited by Arokh; 18/05/1212:08 PM.
By fire and by blood I join with thee in the Order of the Flame!
We have something to announce, something we've been working on for almost two years. It will almost certainly come as a surprise, but we think you might be happy about what it is... Watch the movie: The secret project of Larian Studios
Yeah, I'm betting it's Project E. And I'm also betting it'll be Divinity 3. I don't think Larian would be stupid enough to be working on Dragon Commander, Project E and Divinity 3 all at the same time. Insane enough, maybe, but not stupid enough.
So, you think we are going to play as Damian? IIRC, Larian promised to us something quite unusual, may they mean the "villan as protagonist" thing? Though, I failed to see how is this new, there was a lot of games with such concept already, RPG too.
Also, Project E was supposed to be isometric... so either D3 will be isometric or it is no Project E.
According to the rpgsite.net blurb, the artwork (not a gameplay screenshot) was "a hint at what's to come". Either or both of the couple in question may or may not be playable characters, but it seems at least their relationship will be significant to the plot.
Also, Project E was supposed to be isometric... so either D3 will be isometric or it is no Project E.
From the blurb on RPGwatch and the blog by Larian it looks like this new RPG that is coming is Project E and will be a game based in the Divinity universe. It does not say if it's Divinity 3 or not but I'm assuming it is. As for you playing as Damian, yes this would come as a surprise (maybe that's what they meant) I'm not sure I'd like that idea though.
By fire and by blood I join with thee in the Order of the Flame!
I mentioned that on previous page and explained why it is definitely not a screeshot (for those, who confused).
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As for you playing as Damian, yes this would come as a surprise (maybe that's what they meant) I'm not sure I'd like that idea though.
I honestly don't mind. In fact, it could be very interesting, especially if the surprise will be not the fact that we will play on the villain side, but more like if the game will be about both sides, i.e. narrative and storytelling from both sides a-la Arc the Lad: Twilight of the Spirits. In the end, you can choose (your action will decide) who wins.
You played as Damien before in Beyond Divinity. It wouldn't be anything new.
Hmm, I don't recall playing exactly as Damian, he was just a (manipulative) companion. But yeah, I already mentioned it is not something new in RPGs.
Well you could take control of him and he was technically the main companion and you could choose his class at the beginning of the game. He and The Paladin are the protagonists of Beyond Divinity. So making Damien a playable character (main or not) wouldn't really be new ground for the Divinity series.
We also heard that Divinity 3 ends with the defeat of the villain. So I doubt we'd have a villain (Damien) going up against another villain.
In that link it just says "as a Larian first you defeat the bad guy in the end" which I assume is Damian but it's not actually confirmed anywhere if it is Damian or not as far as I know. Also that particular post does not confirm Project E is Divinity 3 but what was put on RPGwatch seems to confirm it is.
The 'bad guy' could be a few possibilites. Guess we will have to wait till E3 to find out.
My favorite quote from that post is "As for A, it’s the kind of game you should play when you feel like hitting somebody, it’s an excellent frustration outlet."
By fire and by blood I join with thee in the Order of the Flame!
Ohey, search now actually works on the forums, so I was able to find previous status update from Lar where he mentioned all the projects with some details:
a) A Real sequel to ED full price game to be released on all major platforms b) An Isometric low budget spin-off to possibly only be distributed digitally c) A Browser game of some sort d) And finally a multiplayer-focused title, either an MMO (seems unlikely that they would invest in a full scale MMO but maybe a browser MMO) or something with an emphasis on cooperative gameplay
So, it seems that Project E is a standalone game, not related to sequel. The "MMO"-thing he was talking about is most likely DC (though, he explicitly stated that Project D is not a part of these 4; just how much games Larian Studio is developing now?), and browser game is the iOS game (project A).
Actually, those 4 points were guesses on what someone thought Larian's next title would be. Lar continued with:
Originally Posted by Lar_q
So to respond - Project D is none of these and project E, which I think I already mentioned has a top-down camera, can hardly be called low-budget. On the contrary, it makes us bleed, but we have high hopes for it
Whilst it may not be a direct sequel to ED it will continue the story of the divinity universe. So from what I gather it is set after previous games but may not necessarily directly follow on from ED / DKS. Who knows, it may be set many many years after the games with some explanation of what happened to Damien, Divine one and the DK.
Quote from Lar's post:- a) A Real sequel to ED full price game to be released on all major platforms b) An Isometric low budget spin-off to possibly only be distributed digitally c) A Browser game of some sort d) And finally a multiplayer-focused title, either an MMO (seems unlikely that they would invest in a full scale MMO but maybe a browser MMO) or something with an emphasis on cooperative gameplay
Lar was talking about Project D (dragon commander) in the points above as Raze mentioned. DC is the standalone game as it is not based around the 'classic' Divinity storyline i.e the story of The Divine and Dammed One.
Last edited by Arokh; 22/05/1208:01 PM.
By fire and by blood I join with thee in the Order of the Flame!
I've been to their studios this week, but cannot tell what I've seen for another week or so. Let me just say that I was surprised a lot by what I've seen. My assumptions about what Project E was were completely wrong. I'm very enthusiastic about what I saw and I think this game will go down very well with the majority of our visitors.
Well, it just his (admin/moderator/whatever) thoughts that the game seems to be project E, but we don't know for sure. Honestly, I'd rather to hear that from Lar but I have doubts he has any interest to comment on the subj more. Oh well, let's just wait then.
Not like there is a reason to care about working titles, of course, it changes nothing in the end.
Well, it just his (admin/moderator/whatever) thoughts
He is a member of the staff there, and he basically is a "press member" for the Watch, so to say.
RPGWatch collects informations on C-RPGs, and while doing that they also travel to places. And what's more, Myrthos lives in the same country like Larian does. He knows the studio basically for lots of years now - I'm not sure, but it could be that they know them even from the Divinity 1 times on.
You also miss one important point : He writes that
[quote]I've been to their studios this week, but cannot tell what I've seen for another week or so./quote]
What he writes are not his "thoughts" as you put it, but instead he has atually SEEN the whole thing. He is just not allowed to write about it. NDA, you know ? Actual seeing things is something different than thinking about it.
The only thing is, that he did NOT say WHAT "Project E" is ACTUALLY about. this is the ONLY point missing here.
I'm a bit astonished that you change the words for your self so that the meaning you get out of them meets your expectations, not reality.
You write : "his [...] thoughts". He writes : "I've seen".
When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it. --Dilbert cartoon
"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Not changing anything, just buying what are you selling. It seems like you've got an impression (?) that I'm against exactly Project E being sequel or something like that? I don't know, this seems rather silly. I think I was just a bit dizzy and didn't pay much attention to the article.
Now that you put it in a bit more direct way I see it clearly now. Could have spent some time re-reading it myself, though, would be the same result.
Still, as I said, it does not changes anything - there will be an actual sequel to Divinity series besides DC (I don't really count DC as one, though) and I hope it will be "isometric" one, i.e. back to old roots.
Now, ONE thing we know for sure: A new RPG is coming ... and it's Project E
All the rest We only guess Each the best
Have Fun waiting for this upcoming RPG
On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin, it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
>Turn-Based, hexagon shaped tiles, still fast paced >Stats ala hack'n'slash, strength, intelligence, vitality and dexterity, many equipment slots. >2 main characters, a man who's an ex-prisoner and a girl who has been freshly resurrected >Can be played solo or in co-op >Can interact with a lot of objects, using buckets as armor, brooms as weapons etc. >Can use spells to affect the environment, ice magic to freeze water, lightning on wet opponents to boost damage etc, like Magicka somewhat. >Both characters have a role during conversation, even in co-op both players will pick choices so there's no '' leader '' >One character can talk to an NPC while the other character sneaks behind to steal something or access a restricted area >Dialogues are of the same quality as other Divinity's game, so humorous and smart.
It is not Divinity 3? It is prequel to Divine Divinty, but I'm having troubles trying to understand how "original Sin" related to Orc swarm. IIRC, the Story.pdf from DD pretty clearly states that all the races were against Damian's invasion, Orcs as well. Seems like they had to introduce another "deus ex" element, ehh. Kind of sad (and weak), but oh well... can't milk the same cow few times i n a row, there needs to be something for D3 left.
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turn-based co-op gameplay
Wut. Just... what.
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Even the dialogue system is cooperative: the developers wanted to avoid a player on its hands while the other acts as group leader, taking all the decisions. Everyone can participate in discussions and express dissent if necessary!
Now this sounds quite interesting.
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Almost everything can be collected, assembled, carried, thrown ... You can put a bucket on his head as a helmet, take a broom to hit the enemy, etc.
Awesome. It seems like Larian decided to develop the basic concept of advanced interaction with gameworld/environment from DD more, which I highly approve. I really loved to move the barrels and some other things around in original game.
It is prequel to Divine Divinty, but I'm having hard troubles to understand how "original Sin" related to Orc swarm. IIRC, the Story.pdf from DD pretty clearly states that all the races were against Damian's invasion, Orcs as well.
Damian didn't exist until DD. Why would an alliance against a common enemy necessarily mean that races would forever after remain on good terms?
Seems like they had to introduce another "deus ex" element, ehh. Kind of sad (and weak), but oh well...
The DD pre-story described an attack by the Lord of Chaos 600 years before DD. Original Sin is set 200 years before DD.
Summing things up: Larian want to make Beyond Divinity "right". Understandable,but not exactly what I was looking for. Oh man, first Dragon Commander, now this... it seems like I'm not really going to play any Larian games within 5 years until Divinity 3 release.
Raze That's why I said "deus ex". If the story is not related to original plot - it is not a prequel, it is spin-off. If it related to the original story with the Damned One - we know it very good enough, there isn't so much left to put on the field, so what kind of possible Original Sin it could be, if not about the Sword of Lies and Damned One? It seems like they are coming up with something totally new thus "deus ex machina"element. I find them quite cheap, especially when it comes to universe/setting consistence, but that's just me, may be (too much Martin and Bekker).
Ah, understood. Original Sin may well be related to the Damned / Black Ring, if not the Lord of Chaos directly. However, with a fairly long history sketched out, I don't have a problem with stories set in Rivellon which are not closely connected to the plot of the first game.
Well that was unexpected - a prequel to the whole Divinity series. So all that about do you play as the Divine or the DK arguments / points in various past topics was irrelevant.
Well, I assume Larian will be making a sequel to DKS eventually (hopefully a fully 3D game like DKS) but if not, well it's a disapointment in that respect as I was really hoping for a sequel. It's fair to assume as far as the DKS ending went that Damian eventually got his ass kicked by the DK and the Divine but it would have been nice to see this at least. Free short add on possible Larian?
I might be with Kein on this one & hold out for the real Divinity 3 if it ever comes - top down RPG's are kinda not my thing although Ill be giving this a strong consideration. If it had have been Divinity 3 then it would have been a definite purchase but now I'm not so sure. Ill be looking at a demo & reviews though and same will go for Dragon Commander.
Edit: Ah, nuts. It's turn based and that isn't something I particuarly like.
Last edited by Arokh; 28/05/1206:19 PM.
By fire and by blood I join with thee in the Order of the Flame!
I'm depressed by this news. Divine Divinity was an action RPG, not turn based. I have absolutely no interest in turn-based systems. And I've no interest in co-op either. To me this is just another RPG developer closing the coffin lid on single player RPG's. I sure as hell didn't expect this from Larian.
I don't have a huge problem with turn based combat systems, though generally prefer real time. There are a variety of ways turn based combat can be implemented, from slow and tedious to almost real time.
I also have no interest in co-op play, but the game does not require that; you can direct both characters yourself (presumably most of the time outside of combat you will be able to control them together).
As always guys, the proof will be in the eating of the pudding. A lot of you came here because of the first , and the ambition is to give you exactly that and more.
I promised to wait with giving all kinds of details until the official announcement & all media got their chance to tell their story, but then I'll be back with more.
If all goes well tonight, by this time tomorrow there should be more details out there & our site/video should be live.
I'm depressed by this news. Divine Divinity was an action RPG, not turn based. I have absolutely no interest in turn-based systems.
That's why I already wriote at ROGWAtch : Those who loved Divinty 2 for its action hing will most likely be disappojnted. The word "ultima" spoke volumes. Every one who ignored it was a fool. Because Action-RPGs *never* had ANYTHING to do with the "Ultima" series ...
When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it. --Dilbert cartoon
"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
I might be with Kein on this one & hold out for the real Divinity 3 if it ever comes - top down RPG's are kinda not my thing[...]
Well, I, for one, have no issues with isometric, old-school approach on this one, I was waiting for it. But the info bits about gameplay (turn-based co-op, really?) and story disappointed and kind of drove me away indeed.
I totally don't mind any new experiments from Larian, in fact, I'm quite encourage them (such experiments with concept and idea - one of the reasons why we have DayZ), but this is the rare case when I was waiting from the developer a game in the series similar to the previous one.
Actually, I'm ecstatic at the prospect of an isometric view. And in a way, I respect Larian going old school with turn based combat. But I've been weaned on the Witcher series, Mass Effect, Elder scrolls, Fallout 3, etc, and I simply can't get engaged with turn-based systems.
No matter. I wish Larian the best with this title. I had some fun with Ego Draconis and I rank Divine Divinity as a classic, an underrated one at that.
Well Lar is correct, the proof is in the pudding so to speak. It's far too early to say "I'm not buying it because..." Although I said top down RPG's are not my thing, I'm not writing the game off yet. I have played space seige and thought it was OK so although I don't particuarly like the isometric view, if the game is good then I will buy it.
What did put me off is what Kein said - the story / plot and the turn based co-op. However this does not mean Ill be adding it to my don't buy list yet. The game hasn't been officially anounced yet let alone released. When this happens Ill make my decision. I am fairly new to RPG's and (shame on me ) have not played the Ultima games. I have been brought up on RPG's like the Witcher, Dragon Age, Oblivion, Fallout etc so this is what I'm used to.
Actually the turn-based combat really excites me. Hacking and slashing has always lacked that strategic element (although real-time-with-pause would have been enough to get me giddy, provided all the auto-pause options were available). It's a lot more satisfying when you feel you actually had to *think* (instead of brainlessly click) to win a battle (or that there are multiple ways of doing it), and I was always disappointed that Divine Divinity (for its fantastically realized world, story and interactivity) chose to go 'Diablo' rather than Temple-of-Elemental-Evil/Fallout-1/2/Arcanum etc. Bring back those days of turn-based WRPG combat I say! (and finally, a proper successor to Divinity 1!)
I'm preety sure that most of the people complaining are "playstation-teenagers" who played only in the recent Divinity instalment on their mommy's consoles...
Like it or not kids, but isometric Divine Divinity is the best game Larian ever created [also highest rated by gaming critics], and if Larian decided to stick with that formula I can only applaud them.
But judging from the screenshots, I think that graphics should be a bit more darker & grimmier.
Good preview which answers a lot of my questions and you described the turn based combat well. As above I don't know if Ill like that. Interesting that it is going to be a PC and MAC game only.
Do you know if a demo is planned?
By fire and by blood I join with thee in the Order of the Flame!
I wonder why it is called "Original Sin" and how the story is connected to Divine Divinity & Co... considering it takes place a couple of hundred years before.
But judging from the screenshots, I think that graphics should be a bit more darker & grimmier.
I was wondering about that... it does look a little Torchlighty/WoW-y the dungeon walls especially (but less so the eerie night-time shots in the RPGWatch preview's 'combat' section) - the cottage is showing a bit of modern bloom-disease too, haha. That said, I'm not going to complain about graphics if we get everything else (and it still looks damn pretty, with some hint at its own charm) - I don't think it will get in the way much, and might be a practical compromise. If the textures are too rich it will be more difficult to see the interactive objects (plates, candles, pots) at a distance, and divine-divinity-esque art would probably end up looking generic when rendered in 3d.
The conversation system looks like a major piece of innovation (although the dialogue in the RPGWatch screenshot is a little disjointed - I wouldn't call 'risking life and limb for gold' particularly philosophical...) and the environmental effects sound refreshingly involved.
Originally Posted by Arokh
Do you know if a demo is planned?
There were demos for all the other Divinity universe games, so I imagine there will be. With an open-mind and some patience maybe you will find that you enjoy turn-based? It hasn't exactly been well implemented in many games of late, but I think Larian knows what it's doing.
Myrthos, when you say 'the game can also be played single-player, where the player controls the whole party' in the RPGWatch article, do you mean a single-player can create a full cooperative play equivalent 4-character party from the beginning as well - or just the 2 main protagonists?
Ultima Underworld series were among the very first action-RPGs, actually.
There was no definition of "Action-RPGs" then.
The term "Action-RPG" *only* arose in the aftermath of BLizzard.
Because Blizzard's RPGs were about NOTHING BUT fast-paced "action".
The term "Action-RPG" has since then evolved into a very distinct meaning : Fast-paced hack & slay.
There is not a thing like fast paced social interaction, for example.
Originally Posted by virumor
I wonder why it is called "Original Sin" and how the story is connected to Divine Divinity & Co... considering it takes place a couple of hundred years before.
I have a suspicion : The birth of the first Dragon Knights ...
Last edited by AlrikFassbauer; 28/05/1209:28 PM.
When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it. --Dilbert cartoon
"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
I'm preety sure that most of the people complaining are "playstation-teenagers" who played only in the recent Divinity instalment on their mommy's consoles...
Like it or not kids, but isometric Divine Divinity is the best game Larian ever created [also highest rated by gaming critics], and if Larian decided to stick with that formula I can only applaud them.
But judging from the screenshots, I think that graphics should be a bit more darker & grimmier.
Never owned a console, never will. And I want the isometric view. Anyway...
Yes, the art design should be darker and grimmer. It's reminiscent of Torchlight, Diablo 3, Dungeon Siege 2, Pixar, Disney, etc. Not my thing at all. Somewhat cartoonish
With an open-mind and some patience maybe you will find that you enjoy turn-based? It hasn't exactly been well implemented in many games of late, but I think Larian knows what it's doing.
Yes, you are right. This is why I am hoping there is a demo & not yet writing off the game. I dislike turn based combat but if I actually play the thing I might be swayed and find it works. As for the setting / story / plot that was more of a disapointment; it would be stupid not to buy the game just for this reason.
By fire and by blood I join with thee in the Order of the Flame!
That's why I said "deus ex". If the story is not related to original plot - it is not a prequel, it is spin-off. If it related to the original story with the Damned One - we know it very good enough, there isn't so much left to put on the field, so what kind of possible Original Sin it could be, if not about the Sword of Lies and Damned One? It seems like they are coming up with something totally new thus "deus ex machina"element. I find them quite cheap, especially when it comes to universe/setting consistence, but that's just me, may be (too much Martin and Bekker).
Well, from I've read here the plot of this game will be concerned with the birth of the Black Ring, some exploits of Zandalor and Arhu when they were younger, and struggles with the Orcs after their tenuous alliance with the Council of Seven. These seem all pretty much tied in with the main story to me. It's filling in a big, open gap of time between the DD backstory and the events of DD itself.
Personally I have been hoping for a game set BEFORE the events of DD (which seemed like much more interesting time period) since the very beginning.
So in some ways this seems more connected to the "original story" than the meandering adventures concerning Dragon Knights and Goblins (neither of which even existed until they were invented for Divinity 2).
Realised that RPGWatch has a lot more screenshots than the ones shown in the actual article, and I'm starting to like the art style more and more as I go through them - if you try to keep the art direction in Divine Divinity out of your mind, the slight cartoony touch seems a lot more like... Ultima 7 (surprise surprise) [bloom is still excessive though].
Turn based is bad. It's tipped the balance from 'get' to 'not get' on a few games for me that might otherwise have been tempting.
HOWEVER, with that said, if the game looks to be awesome despite the combat, I will certainly be picking it up, anyway. Great plot and characterisation will get me playing turn based games, as both are vastly more important to me than how much boring combat I have to endure (And, yes, real time combat can be boring, too. But turn based has the possibility of REALLY boring!).
One final caveat: DRM. Lousy DRM is an absolutely certain no-buy from me, no matter what!
Beyond those observations, I have nowhere near enough information yet to decide one way or the other whether this game will interest me or not. Doubt that'll change any time soon, either. I'm certainly not prepared to condone or condemn with almost nothing known.
Though I have to add that the concept art for the lead couple (Or I presume the lead couple) does look pretty awesome...
(And also this may be where the totally new part is. Does anyone recall any RPG with a couple who are paired up/married right from the start as the leads? I don't...)
Turn based is bad. It's tipped the balance from 'get' to 'not get' on a few games for me that might otherwise have been tempting.
...But turn based has the possibility of REALLY boring!).
I'm curious whenever someone says something along these lines - can you give some examples of turn-based games you found really boring? and for what reasons? Not that I disagree with you in some cases, often when it comes to, say, non dungeon-crawler JRPG turn-based combat, but obviously we're talking about different beasts here.
Isometric, turn-based, optional co-op - this all sounds very promising!
Now I really hope - the male character is not limited to close combat (and doesn't have to wear full armour all of the time) - the game will not have excessive DRM.
You will be able to develop both characters as you wish (as with previous Divinity games, there is no strict class system). Not a lot about the equipment system has been revealed, but there should be a variety of armour (possibly robes, etc, if forum requests made after DD were taken to heart).
Nothing has been mentioned about copy protection for Original Sin (or Dragon Commander), but Lar has said in the forum and his blog that he is not a big fan of DRM (The pirate in me). Larian removed the DRM from Divine Divinity, Beyond Divinity and DKS (contractual restrictions prevented them from removing it from the original release of D2:ED), so now that they are self-publishing it is unlikely they would start going with more restrictive DRM.
I haven't logged into this site in a very long time. I'm still fond of Larian's games and style and still flattered and grateful that you guys made me into a dwarf in the original game. I just wanted to drop a note saying that you guys made another sale today. Like, immediately. Like if you allowed me to pre-order now, I would give you money. Like this guy:
With respect to turn-based, the number of times you get into combat will be much less compared to the previous Divinity games.. The encounters you have with others will happen much more than you will need to fight and also you can avoid combat by talking your way out of it, although I'm not sure if this applies to all fights and it is likely to require certain stats levels. With the exception of the last bit that was mentioned to me during the presentation.
Actually the turn-based combat really excites me. Hacking and slashing has always lacked that strategic element [...]
That's why it is called as "hack&slash" and has its own sub-genre now, thanks to Diablo?
Originally Posted by Estrogen
I'm preety sure that most of the people complaining are "playstation-teenagers" who played only in the recent Divinity instalment on their mommy's consoles...
Your deep insight into the root of the issue astonishes me, man.
Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer
I have a suspicion : The birth of the first Dragon Knights ...
Yeah, I thought about that too, but again - why Sin? According to D2 story, the bonds between real Dragons and chosen humans were a blessing, not a curse or something bad.
flixerflax Haven't read the article yet, will reply when do.
I'll say one more thing about a quote from that RPG Watch article:
"And now Larian feel the RPG players are ready for a turn-based RPG."
Eh....I think real-time with active pause (to issue orders) is still the best bet. It allows deliberation and tactical strategy for those so inclined but also allows the freedom to just let the combat play out.
Turn-based is a big turn-off for many, including me.
Your deep insight into the root of the issue astonishes me, man.
There is no point for deep "analysis" of a very simple problem. The younger generation of players simply demands yet another "awesome & actiony" [ideally without any dialogues] Dragon Knight Saga on their beloved consoles, because terms like "isometric" or "turn-based" sound for them like from completely different period.
Originally Posted by flixerflax
Turn-based is a big turn-off for many, including me.
Then what are you doing here? Because last time I checked the best game in the Divinity series was isometric Divine Divinity. You should install Derp Age 2 from bioware instead and enjoy the "very modern & awesome" third person derpg to the fullest.
With respect to turn-based, the number of times you get into combat will be much less compared to the previous Divinity games.. The encounters you have with others will happen much more than you will need to fight and also you can avoid combat by talking your way out of it, although I'm not sure if this applies to all fights and it is likely to require certain stats levels. With the exception of the last bit that was mentioned to me during the presentation.
There is no point for deep "analysis" of a very simple problem. The younger generation of players simply demands yet another "awesome & actiony" [ideally without any dialogues] Dragon Knight Saga on their beloved consoles, because terms like "isometric" or "turn-based" sound for them like from completely different period.
I want it to be isometric with old-school gameplay approach and yet action-RPG at the same time, with more active battlesystem. Now what?
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Then what are you doing here? Because last time I checked the best game in the Divinity series was isometric Divine Divinity. You should install Derp Age 2 from bioware instead and enjoy the "very modern & awesome" third person derpg to the fullest.
Do you even read what you say and what you are replying to? Like, really? He said "turn-based", not isometric. It is tow totally different things.
flixerflax The article on RPGWatch seems to be quite similar to the french one, just in proper english. Nothing new, but at last I've got the chance to understand some bits regarding the story and it seems promising so far, but I'm still not convinced. Why would Council and Orcs go into fight, if the Council supposed to be exist and formed from all the races only during the rising of the Damned One/Lord of Chaos?
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You can also combine objects that are found in the game. If you have poisonous mushrooms you will get very sick eating them but when applied to your weapon it results in a poisonous weapon doing more damage.
Food will nourish you, as expected. It can be found in the game, but you can also create your own food. To facilitate this, there will be recipes and notes lying around that will explain what some combination of items can do for you to stimulate experimenting with them. You can find grain, for example, that combined with water results in dough and if you find an oven you can bake your own bread.
Combining objects also works on summoning dolls. They could be made stronger by combining them with rock, which the doll puts on its fists to hit harder. They are experimenting a lot with the system to find out what the limits are and what can be achieved.
All of this sounds REALLY promising, but damn, turn-based battlesystem really turns me off. Unlike Fallout, in Divinity games it will some kind of layer for me, between the gameworld and me and thus interaction with this world and atmosphere would look a bit... "artificial". Ugh, I don't know.
Turn based is bad. It's tipped the balance from 'get' to 'not get' on a few games for me that might otherwise have been tempting.
You might want to give "King's Bounty: The Legend" a shot. It is, in my humble opinion, The Perfect Game (tm). If Div:OS is anything like it in terms of combat (and with hex tiles in combat it very well might be), it'll be incredible.
Woooot, finally some more info on this game. I'm wondering what engine you guys are using, some in-house engine probably. It sure does look like Divinity 2.0, things you wanted to do, but due to lack of money etc. didn't get into the game.
First big plus is finally a moddable Larian game. I don't mind turnbased game, it all depends on the implementation. I did play Divinity with a lot of pausing. Conversations do look more fun when playing with a 2nd person, hope it still is good when soloing.
Anyways, I'm looking forward to more info and keeping a close eye on this one.
I have a suspicion : The birth of the first Dragon Knights ...
Yeah, I thought about that too, but again - why Sin? According to D2 story, the bonds between real Dragons and chosen humans were a blessing, not a curse or something bad.
I think Original Sin will refer to something to do with the Black Ring and the guy who started it.
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As for the comments about people who are complaining which I suppose includes me; we are just voicing our opinions. I am not dismissing the game altogether - there will be lots of people who will look forward to and enjoy it & I hope Larian has a huge success with it. Turn based combat isn't something I like but I am willing to give the game a try - I might be swayed.
We are not all young gamers. I'm 36 but I have only owned a PC for around 12 years and never got a chance to play a lot of early classic games. I guess I missed out. I didn't start work till I was 20 and all my money went on other things rather than a PC or game system. My parents were not ones to buy me such things either as they thought computer games were a waste of time.
I play most games on a PC. I don't own an Xbox, just a PS3 which mainly gets used as a blu-ray player. As for old games, they just don't appeal to me now. Even now whith working full time, running a house and seeing family I don't have as much time as I'd like to for playing games. I don't buy many now so I only go for things I really like. I'm sure others will be in a similar situation to me.
Larian's two games suit different audiences - Original Sin will appeal to PC gamers both old and new whilst Dragon Commander will be more console orientated.
By fire and by blood I join with thee in the Order of the Flame!
Yes, the art design should be darker and grimmer. It's reminiscent of Torchlight, Diablo 3, Dungeon Siege 2, Pixar, Disney, etc. Not my thing at all. Somewhat cartoonish
There are imho too many "dark & gritty" games out there right now. (Gothic series, Witcher series, Blizzard's series, lots of Action-RPGs ... But not a single non-Action offline single-player RPG.) Compared to them, this game is rather refreshingly new. But that's my personal opinion.
Abd personally, I'm already sick and tired of all this "dark fantasy" fashion wave. I believe it's time for something new in regard to "serious" RPGs.
Originally Posted by flixerflax
Eh....I think real-time with active pause (to issue orders) is still the best bet.
Personally, I disagree. "Real-time with Pause" just FEELS differently to REAL turn-based combat - just play TOEE, where you have one of the very last good RPGs using turn-based combat.
Originally Posted by Arokh
whilst Dragon Commander will be more console orientated.
Having seen the new screenshots from that French-language article I begin to doubt that.
It really begins to look like a board game in some screenshots.
Now I#ve been reading through the RPGWatch preview article - and I must say that I'm positively impressed in almost every aspect !
My only concern has the name of "Steam".
I understan that you need to use it, but personally I dislike Steam. I know that I'm kind of crazy, but I've begun to categorize games which require Steam as "Online Games" - because Steam is basically an "Always On" DRM like Blizzard has used now as well (and before that Ubi Soft was using it).
I#m glad that Steam isn't required for local multiplayer games, though. Although I'll most likely never get the possibility to do so.
To be frank, Steam is to me nohing but an a) "implicite DRM system", b) a massive taker of harddisk space, c) a massive taker of RAM. At least in its default form, when it is loaded each time the PC starts.
From the perspective of system resources efficiency, Steam isn't a big plus.
But what I can't understand at all is the requirement of Steam for publishing own-made mods. Honestly, I just fail to see any benefits of that for me, as a player (and probably modder, too, because I'm still interested in this idea).
I remember that the possibility to publish mods and to build of "modding communities" through Steam was announced several months ago for ... PC games in general.
But using Steam for that is kind of monopolization to me. Sure, it makes things so much easier to have a central where everything is collected in one place (like a library), but it still feels like some kind of monopoly to m. What if Valve begins charging money for that ?
So, my last question is : Will there be other possible outlets for Mods, too ?
[And I do fear that Action-RPG lovers will most likely get rid of all of the turn-based combat s soon as possible altogether ... To form *their* view of how Divinity games "should" look like ...]
@Bedwyr, Arhu : welcome back !
Last edited by AlrikFassbauer; 29/05/1210:56 AM.
When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it. --Dilbert cartoon
"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
So it's prequel to Divine Divinity. Did not see that one coming. While i'm bit disappointed that this isn't Divinity 3 and story of Damian, Divine one and dragon knight (and Rhode) won't come to the conclusion yet.....
Turn Based?! Old school?! No hand holding?! isometric view?!... Take my money!! This is what i was hopping for. Can't wait for demo.
There are imho too many "dark & gritty" games out there right now. [...] Abd personally, I'm already sick and tired of all this "dark fantasy" fashion wave.
Because once it becomes popular and demand-able - it becomes mainstream, which produces too much cheap and alike games in such setting. No wonder you want to vomit just hearing about them or looking at them, haha.
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Originally Posted by flixerflax
Eh....I think real-time with active pause (to issue orders) is still the best bet.
Personally, I disagree. "Real-time with Pause" just FEELS differently to REAL turn-based combat - just play TOEE, where you have one of the very last good RPGs using turn-based combat.
Real-time battle with pause definitely won't be turn-based because of obvious reasons, but personally I'm with flixerflax here - I'd rather see this kind of battlesystem.
Why would Council and Orcs go into fight, if the Council supposed to be exist and formed from all the races only during the rising of the Damned One/Lord of Chaos?
The council and orcs/imps/lizards were at odds during Divine Divinity, so there is no reason some or most orcs couldn't be hostile in a different time. After the League of Seven sacrificed themselves to defeat the Lord of Chaos in the second war with the Damned, the council continued to function for some time (Zandalor was chosen as the next mage council member). By the time of Divine Divinity it had been inactive for awhile, but there is a lot of time between those events.
I understan that you need to use it, but personally I dislike Steam. I know that I'm kind of crazy, but I've begun to categorize games which require Steam as "Online Games" - because Steam is basically an "Always On" DRM like Blizzard has used now as well (and before that Ubi Soft was using it).
I#m glad that Steam isn't required for local multiplayer games, though. Although I'll most likely never get the possibility to do so.
To be frank, Steam is to me nohing but an a) "implicite DRM system", b) a massive taker of harddisk space, c) a massive taker of RAM. At least in its default form, when it is loaded each time the PC starts.
Steam does not require you to be online. Only time you need to be online is when you activate a game. UNLESS the game itself has some of its own DRM included. But steam has a offline mode that works good.
But I understand you rather not have steam and only want to install the game itself to play.
Turn based is bad. It's tipped the balance from 'get' to 'not get' on a few games for me that might otherwise have been tempting.
...But turn based has the possibility of REALLY boring!).
I'm curious whenever someone says something along these lines - can you give some examples of turn-based games you found really boring? and for what reasons? Not that I disagree with you in some cases, often when it comes to, say, non dungeon-crawler JRPG turn-based combat, but obviously we're talking about different beasts here.
Turn based combat is always either boring or ridiculous. I've seen both.
The 'ridiculous' comes in when the bars advance very fast, there is no pause when it's your turn and you need to move through several menus to get at things like healing - which means you have no time to use any abilities except hit fast and hope like heck they die before you do.
The 'at least slightly boring' comes in everything else. With the traditional 'everyone stands in a line' JRPG approach, there is no tactical element whatsoever and no real strategy, either. Your group is either powerful enough, or they are not.
You can also waste an appalling amount of time on encounters that your group can swat in one hit while the game changes to 'battlefield' then you wait your turn, etc. You could have looted the body and been a hundred yards away in real time with pausing (By far the best system).
The simple fact is that most encounters in any RPG are just not going to be a challenge and turn based combat spins them out totally pointlessly.
Real time with pausing lets you stop to think when you hit one of the rare encounters that actually are challenging (Or not, if you think you can take it anyway). It is simply the best system hands down.
I can't even comprehend why any maker of a Western RPG would choose turn based combat now that modern systems can handle just about anything in the way of live action systems. It may be traditional in JRPGs, but combat has always been their worst feature by a very long way.
By far the best system I've seen in a JRPG is in Final Fantasy 12, and that's real time with pausing. If Western companies copy anything, it should be that, as the system itself is actually excellent (Better than the original Dragon Age, in fact, though not the mod that improves the tactics system).
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I'm with Alrik on Steam, BTW. If the game DEMANDS Steam in order for me to play offline single player, it is a no-buy from me. It is a particularly pernicious form of DRM that I will have no truck with.
If Steam is OPTIONAL and only required for multi-player, I have no problem with it.
In my case it is always so that "real time with pause" always creates the impression to me - and I' putting it as an extreme here - "real time with some sort of something that remotely looks like turn-based tacked on".
My biggest problem I have with "real time with pause" is tht it *always* defaults in an real-time combat for me. And I assume that for approx. 70% of all players it is so as well. That's why I dislike it. It always goves me the feeling of "something looking like TB being tacked on" - simply because it always *defaults* for action-combat to me.
Personally, I would really like to see see a poll or other play data on how many people in such a game actually use the "pause" feature.
And I have the impression of "real time with pause" not feeling like turb-based. It's just an impression, a feeling I always get. Because the game is designed differently, then.
It begins with the start o any combat. Everything is usually fast-paced within the combat - only to be "hindered" by a pause. The animations are faster than in the TB games I remember.
The pause feels rather like an interruption, and not as being imprelented by design, to me.
When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it. --Dilbert cartoon
"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
The point of 'real time with pause' is to allow most of the action to happen in real time with pausing only when you need it. For most of the games that use it, this amounts to a healing or 'out of ammunition' pause, or for allowing you to give orders to multiple characters in extremis.
For most fights you won't need it and most likely won't bother with it. It's not supposed to be any kind of surrogate for turn based combat.
Oh my goodness, I just saw the screenshots and read the previews online. Larian, this looks so amazing.
I do hope to see a game in the vein of Div 2: DKS again, but I'm more excited about a new isometric one right now.
My Favorite RPGs: Divinity franchise, Gothic franchise (including Arcania, so I think I'm alone...), Venetica, Risen, Two Worlds II, The Witcher, Sacred franchise, Fallout franchise, Mass Effect 1, Alpha Protocol, Planescape: Torment, Drakensang, KOTOR 1 & 2, etc.
You will be able to develop both characters as you wish (as with previous Divinity games, there is no strict class system). Not a lot about the equipment system has been revealed, but there should be a variety of armour (possibly robes, etc, if forum requests made after DD were taken to heart).
Thanks, Raze I hope one can be a mage or archer without wearing pieces of platemail armour.
Originally Posted by Myrthos
With respect to turn-based, the number of times you get into combat will be much less compared to the previous Divinity games.
Again, great news! A few challenging fights are much better than lots of effortlessly won fights.
Originally Posted by Elliot_Kane
You can also waste an appalling amount of time on encounters that your group can swat in one hit while the game changes to 'battlefield' then you wait your turn, etc. You could have looted the body and been a hundred yards away in real time with pausing (By far the best system).
I agree that turn-based combat should not be used when you are able to defeat opponents with just one hit. A hack 'n' slash game with turn-based combat would not be a great idea. But it looks like Larian will focus on fewer, more challenging fights, which I appreciate. And that's where turn-based combat can really shine.
Originally Posted by Elliot_Kane
I'm with Alrik on Steam, BTW. If the game DEMANDS Steam in order for me to play offline single player, it is a no-buy from me. It is a particularly pernicious form of DRM that I will have no truck with.
If Steam is OPTIONAL and only required for multi-player, I have no problem with it.
Same here. If a Steam account is required for playing the game, I will probably not buy it, despite its promising features.
The RPGWatch preview only mentioned Steamworks, though, and that's not quite same.
Concerning the co-op dialogue system:
Originally Posted by Swen's blog
I actually don’t understand why nobody did this before – the moment you start thinking about making a real RPG with cooperative multiplayer in there, you can’t but end up with something like this.
I guess this hasn't been done yet because it looks like a lot of additional work. If there's an additional line for everything one of the lead characters can be saying, that's at least twice as much PC dialogue, and possibly even more dialogue if you allow NPCs to react on disagreements between the lead characters. It does sound like it could have a lot of potential, though if it basically comes down to the lead characters having to agree on one option, I wouldn't need an in-game system for that. When playing co-op, I will use voice chat anyway, and it's easy enough to agree on which dialogue option we will choose via chat. So I hope at least some NPCs will react in a specific way when the lead characters disagree. This would require even more dialogue and could quickly become very costly if all of the dialogue is done by voice-actors.
While we're at it: On the website, you can switch to different languages. Does this mean the game will be fully localized?
The 'ridiculous' comes in when the bars advance very fast, there is no pause when it's your turn and you need to move through several menus to get at things like healing - which means you have no time to use any abilities except hit fast and hope like heck they die before you do.
The 'at least slightly boring' comes in everything else. With the traditional 'everyone stands in a line' JRPG approach, there is no tactical element whatsoever and no real strategy, either. Your group is either powerful enough, or they are not.
Have you tried Dofus, Heroes of Might and Magic, King's Bounty or Fallout ? They are turn based, and neither of those things you describe. With what you describe, it seems to me you've only played J-RPG (as turn based games).
Beaten by Kein ! Never thought I'd live to see the day
Gotta go fast!
Originally Posted by Merendrious
Just noticed this on the official website, a Kirill picture, with the following caption:
"ENJOY THE DIVINE MUSIC OF KIRILL POKROVSKY: the award‐winning composer of all previous Divinity games." aaawwww yeeeess, maybe not the biggest surprise, but I'm still happy for that.
Oh damn, how did I miss that? It seems like we can expect another awesome soundtrack from Kirill! "Awww yeah" indeed.
Like the website (and the new Dragon Commander one) - at least now we know what the "Original Sin" refers to; if I read it correctly it's the original sins of the two characters. Also it looks like it's set between Dragon Commander and Divine Divinity.
Looks like it will be a lot of fun. As for the turn based thing, well I'm still a bit stand-off ish about that but if combat is going to be reduced then it might not be so bad. Ill definitley be giving a demo a try.
If the game is going to be Steam exclusive personally it would not bother me but I know a lot of people dislike steam. I would have thought it will be purchaseable from Larian's web shop as well.
By fire and by blood I join with thee in the Order of the Flame!
What is the difference, actually ? I never saw any, I must admit.
Steamworks is the programming interface to steam, it offers everything for multiplayer support like making connections and voice communication. It also offers functionality for player identification and anti cheating. And it offers a range of other things, one of them being DRM. I do not think there is a requirement to use DRM though. It offers almost everything that is needed for allowing players on the Internet to play with eachother. Something that has been tested thoroughly and does not need to be developed anymore.
The 'ridiculous' comes in when the bars advance very fast, there is no pause when it's your turn and you need to move through several menus to get at things like healing - which means you have no time to use any abilities except hit fast and hope like heck they die before you do.
The 'at least slightly boring' comes in everything else. With the traditional 'everyone stands in a line' JRPG approach, there is no tactical element whatsoever and no real strategy, either. Your group is either powerful enough, or they are not.
Have you tried Dofus, Heroes of Might and Magic, King's Bounty or Fallout ? They are turn based, and neither of those things you describe. With what you describe, it seems to me you've only played J-RPG (as turn based games).
Well, let me see... I have played HoMM 2, 3, 4 & 5, though not the latest because of the DRM. I have also played a number of the Tarnum campaigns released for 3 (Though not all, as I did not know some of them existed, sadly) and have both expansions for 5.
I have played Armoured Princess (Though not the original King's Bounty), and think it should probably be called 'Bikini Princess' instead! It's a very good game, and I would recommend it.
I have also played more RPGMaker JRPGs than I could even begin to name and could recommend more than a few if you want to know what the good ones are.
So yes, I am well aware of what can and cannot be done with turn based combat. And I still maintain that it is always and inevitably a bad choice for RPGs.
Without exception, I have played turn based RPGs in spite of not because of the combat system.
Relax, it's still couple of months before they will end developing Orginal Sin. While i like turn based combat there is possibility that they will add real time with pause option if they decide so.
Amazing - I simply love the direction you're taking with this one.
Turn-based combat, party interaction and dialogue focus, coop style, explorable world with many secrets, top down perspective... and editor release for the modding community! That sounds almost too good to be true ;-). I will eagerly foolow this one and am really happy you're going against main stream of nowadays with this. All the best for your project!
Edit: Ah, plaese no real-time-stop-motion combat - true turn based combat allows for much deeper tactic systems. At least normal battles should require to take it slowly and think to win. If you must, have real time as an option placing the player severably at disadvantage (because he lacks the time to use the required complex stratgies), so it's only useful against oppopnents much weaker than your party already. The balance of diffculty should be centered around making the right choices in combat by thinking hard (at least on higher difficulty levels).
Does anyone else find the environments and characters very much like a child's cartoon? It makes Drakensang look like Dragon Age. A color palette closer to DD might help a little bit.
And did I see a Skeleton Bomber based on Jeff Dunham's Achmed the Dead Terrorist?
Does anyone else find the environments and characters very much like a child's cartoon? It makes Drakensang look like Dragon Age. A color palette closer to DD might help a little bit.
It would be nice if they revamped the colors. DD strove for a very realistic, earthy aesthetic, so I'm surprised they've gone the Disney route with this one. Colors are too saturated. I actually prefer the way DD looks.
I commend Larian for releasing mod tools. Not many devs do that anymore. Also, are characters voiced or silent?
It mentions turned based. Is this true turned based or like Bioware's pause based system?
Please be pure turn, pause to me was always sloppy and pretty much impossible to balance masterfully, you paused more if it got hard, so it becomes like a cheat mode. Turn is great for balancing and just being clean for the players to execute.
Active-pause was considered for some time (and we actually started out like this), but in my heart I really wanted to make one of those games that has epic tactical battles, where you really have to think how you’re going to defeat the enemy. And because I’m occasionally very impulsive, one morning I stormed into the office and told the team that we were going to ditch all the hack & slash stuff and go for turn-based. I was ready to go all despot on them should I encounter any resistance, but to my surprise, they were actually quite supportive of that idea. Then I discovered they were a little bit too supportive, because before I knew it I had an ultra-hardcore system on my plate. Eventually we settled on something that I think is quite accessible, but still offers plenty of opportunity for tactical depth.
Active-pause was considered for some time (and we actually started out like this), but in my heart I really wanted to make one of those games that has epic tactical battles, where you really have to think how you’re going to defeat the enemy. And because I’m occasionally very impulsive, one morning I stormed into the office and told the team that we were going to ditch all the hack & slash stuff and go for turn-based. I was ready to go all despot on them should I encounter any resistance, but to my surprise, they were actually quite supportive of that idea. Then I discovered they were a little bit too supportive, because before I knew it I had an ultra-hardcore system on my plate. Eventually we settled on something that I think is quite accessible, but still offers plenty of opportunity for tactical depth.
Welcome to the forum.
Perfect, thanks. PC Gaming is really looking up lately. This decision is a big deal and imo a right one. As said you can't have near-perfect balance unless it's pure turn.
I reckon that turn-based combat is great addition to this game. No more clicking without thinking and knowing that if you are powerful enough you will defeat the enemies.
What I am hoping for is that we will be able to win when weaker then enemies due to good tactics and lose to weaker enemies due to bad tactics.
Well, that's all well and good, and I'd be thrilled if this game changed my mind about turn-based combat.
What I don't like is people suggesting that if it's not turn-based, then it's a mindless, shallow clickfest where you mash a single button with your eyes closed to win every battle.
There are tactics with real-time w/ active pause. Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age, Drakensang anyone? Tactics, strategy, deliberation and party management can still be a part of a game's combat without the game ripping the control out of your hands at every turn and making all the pauses for you. It wastes time, and even at best makes combat more like a separate mini-game.
The change to turn-based combat baffled me until I read farther and saw that you were controlling two characters. The real-time attempt for controlling two characters in Beyond Divinity was a bit tricky to manage.
... and then I read the part where one party member could get into a turn-based fight which other one could go off and ignore, still playing in real-time, and I was baffled again.
I'm not a huge fan of turn-based combat, but I enjoyed the Fallout series just fine, and this looks like it's following the Fallout "action points" model which worked there.
AND turn-based is ideal for performing combos to attack. I really do not understand everyone whining and saying they'll never buy the game because of that.
The game looks fantastic. I did like the 3rd-person over the shoulder view of Divinity 2, but again, two characters to control has this making more sense.
Looking through the Jeuxvideo site... is this shipping with the map editor? It looks very much like the Morrowind map editor, and I know how to use that!
To whoever theorized this: the game can't be about the birth of the Dragon Knights, even the very youngest of Dragon Knights are FAR older than Zandalor.
Originally Posted by Elliot_Kane
(And also this may be where the totally new part is. Does anyone recall any RPG with a couple who are paired up/married right from the start as the leads? I don't...)
Final Fantasy IV? I think it had Cecil and Rosa as a couple before the game started, although she didn't join the party for a few hours.
Originally Posted by Elliot_Kane
Turn based combat is always either boring or ridiculous. I've seen both.
The 'ridiculous' comes in when the bars advance very fast, there is no pause when it's your turn and you need to move through several menus to get at things like healing - which means you have no time to use any abilities except hit fast and hope like heck they die before you do.
The 'at least slightly boring' comes in everything else. With the traditional 'everyone stands in a line' JRPG approach, there is no tactical element whatsoever and no real strategy, either. Your group is either powerful enough, or they are not.
So, there's this game called Fallout... It uses a thing called Action points, it's a pool each character has that can be spent moving or performing an attack. Each character in the party had their own pool of Action points.
You could move each character separately to position them better (out of the line of fire of other teammates).
It worked very well, and that game only had guns and melee attacks, never mind magic, never mind magic that could be combined to attack or defend.
Alrik - I did mostly play the Divinity games in real-time, only occasionally using pause, but pausing did come in handy some times for priority target selection.
Well, that's all well and good, and I'd be thrilled if this game changed my mind about turn-based combat.
What I don't like is people suggesting that if it's not turn-based, then it's a mindless, shallow clickfest where you mash a single button with your eyes closed to win every battle.
There are tactics with real-time w/ active pause. Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age, Drakensang anyone? Tactics, strategy, deliberation and party management can still be a part of a game's combat without the game ripping the control out of your hands at every turn and making all the pauses for you. It wastes time, and even at best makes combat more like a separate mini-game.
Totally with Flix on this one.
A good tactical sense will carry you far with real time combat. Seeking positional advantage, proper blocking of enemy access routes to prevent your mages/distance fighters being overrun, etc. Plus you better sort out the strategic side of things if you don't want to die in a hurry, whether through setting up any automatic tactics system (As with Dragon Age or Final Fantasy 12) or just through making sure your characters are properly equipped.
Turn based combat - with or without action points (And I've got games with both systems) is just nowhere near as good.
Put it this way: there's an old game called Chaos Gate that is an action point based turn based combat game set in the Warhammer 40K universe and featuring the usual Space Marines vrs Chaos Marines that you'd expect. It was a great little game for its time, and did what it did well. But is it remotely in the same league as Dawn Of War? No. Of course it isn't.
There is simply no urgency in turn based combat. No sense that you are IN combat and must make decisions fast to save the lives of your people. You could wander off down the pub without even pausing the game and nothing would have changed when you get back.
That total lack of urgency and ability to think out every move for as long as you wish obviously appeals to a number of people on here. It does not appeal to me, and especially not when attached to an RPG.
Does anyone really want to see those little one-hit encounters with an action point system in combat? Four turns and one hit to kill a Bite Bug or whatever? Can anyone truly and honestly say they would love that?
Well, the video on the website shows a bit of combat. They summon an ice elemental which is quickly destroyed, leaving some ice on the ground. Then they cast a fireball on the ice in order to melt it and finally hurl a lightning bolt at the water which kills both opponents standing in it.
For me, it seems natural to choose turn-based combat if you want a system that can do this. It would be possible with real-time combat and an active pause as well, but if you'd be pausing the game a lot anyway, I think it's better to go for turn-based combat to start with.
Yes, it disrupts the flow of the game, but so does reading the available dialogue options and choosing one. Or opening a window with available loot and picking the items you want to take. It doesn't bother me. And I think combat looks very promising in the video - much better than anything I've seen in a long time.
The more I think about, and especially after seeing some video footage, the more I like the turn-based combat. There is now an entire party to control. For the same reasons as Lurker gives just above me. My Baldur's Gate settings were always, auto-pause on being attacked, auto pause on enemy entering screen, auto-pause on spell complete,... . Making it basically a turnbased game (go figure, behind the scenes its all dices being thrown). And it looks D:OS is also having a pretty complex combat variety, with spell combo's and lots of skills. Requiring to assess the situation and react on it.
And its also not the turn-based combat with tiles it seems. And turn-based is not necissarily a fight for hours where the simplest creature takes 5 hits but you miss so often. World is not only black and white.
And yet again, there is a plethora of RPG's with realtime combat, so still more then enough to chose from. And this one can bring some nice change on that aspect.
Relax, it's still couple of months before they will end developing Orginal Sin. While i like turn based combat there is possibility that they will add real time with pause option if they decide so.
Turn based is bad. It's tipped the balance from 'get' to 'not get' on a few games for me that might otherwise have been tempting.
...But turn based has the possibility of REALLY boring!).
I'm curious whenever someone says something along these lines - can you give some examples of turn-based games you found really boring? and for what reasons? Not that I disagree with you in some cases, often when it comes to, say, non dungeon-crawler JRPG turn-based combat, but obviously we're talking about different beasts here.
King's Bounty -.- after a few weeks I couldn't stand the game anymore which was a pitty..but I'm hoping larian does it a WHOLE lot better
In my case it is always so that "real time with pause" always creates the impression to me - and I' putting it as an extreme here - "real time with some sort of something that remotely looks like turn-based tacked on".
My biggest problem I have with "real time with pause" is tht it *always* defaults in an real-time combat for me. And I assume that for approx. 70% of all players it is so as well. That's why I dislike it. It always goves me the feeling of "something looking like TB being tacked on" - simply because it always *defaults* for action-combat to me.
Personally, I would really like to see see a poll or other play data on how many people in such a game actually use the "pause" feature.
And I have the impression of "real time with pause" not feeling like turb-based. It's just an impression, a feeling I always get. Because the game is designed differently, then.
It begins with the start o any combat. Everything is usually fast-paced within the combat - only to be "hindered" by a pause. The animations are faster than in the TB games I remember.
The pause feels rather like an interruption, and not as being imprelented by design, to me.
erm..have you played DD? Because if you have I'm wondering what you did dif. than me because I used the pause A LOT, and loved it BTW...killing a superoverpowered (for your lvl anyway) boss by freezing him and pausing so u can attack before he unfreezes and whacks you with one hit ^^ heavenly
yeah, im with dwelfius. I did pause a lot with DivDiv, and most DnD games like Baldurs Gate 1&2, planescape,... . It is almost necessary at higher difficulties, or you just need more reflexes, but I dont have those :D, it causes me to misclick things. I'm more someone who likes to plan attacks and skills. But then again, I also adore Turn based strategy games like Age of Wonders
Well, that's all well and good, and I'd be thrilled if this game changed my mind about turn-based combat.
What I don't like is people suggesting that if it's not turn-based, then it's a mindless, shallow clickfest where you mash a single button with your eyes closed to win every battle.
There are tactics with real-time w/ active pause. Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age, Drakensang anyone? Tactics, strategy, deliberation and party management can still be a part of a game's combat without the game ripping the control out of your hands at every turn and making all the pauses for you. It wastes time, and even at best makes combat more like a separate mini-game.
The problem with pause is simply this, balance. You are more precise if you pause every move and if you don't pause you are less precise. Each person has their own taste in how much pause they use when given the choice. So the dev has to make a determination on where to set the difficulty. User pausing half the time or whatever, then balance for that. Whatever they choose you can simply make the game easier by pausing more then what they designed the game for. Always felt like a cheat to me. Then it's messy with who's turn it is and stuff like that, not as big of a deal but messy micromanaging.
Pure turn, you know exactly how the players are playing and can make proper balance decisions. You clearly know who's turn it is as well.
Knights of the Chalice was a great recent little game that reminded me how fun a turn based game is. Waiting for a homage to Wiz 8 as well. A wonderful take on first person free movement, into turned based combat.
Knights of the Chalice is one of the best RPGs of the last decade. Damn, makes me want to dig out Dark Sun and Wake of the Ravager. With the right cycle settings on dosbox the battle pace is adrenaline inducing (even when you have all the time you need to make each move). Perhaps an animation speed control can be added to Original Sin's options to speed things up for those who find turn based tedious for the reasons of 'having to wait a bit'? Like Wizfast for Wizardry 8.
If the balance is well tuned (which should be easier for developers given a turn based system) I also don't see turn based detracting from the urgency of combat. If anything, the fact that your warrior is at nearly zero health and seems one or two turns away from a fatal blow (and time is frozen waiting for your next move) can be even more thrilling than simply watching your avatar collapse after a few seconds and reloading. With the turn system you are able to dwell on damage inflicted, better judge your enemies midflow, even when you have never encountered the enemy before.
wanted to share my 2cents but too lazy to rephrase the whole thing so I'm just going to copy it from my response at lar.net (sohooo lazy ^^)
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Oh my getting spoiled with all the reviews,vid,screenies..
1st of all, as stated in one of my previous posts(sorry for spamming your blog,I'm just really interested),TB is (or has not ever been) a prefered style of mine.I was very much a fan of the action-pause system (so exhilirating taking on a boss that by all definitions should squish you like a boss and win, after an obscene amount of potions ^^)..BUT Larian would not be Larian if they wouldn't have succeeded in somehow (the vid) convincing me that this might actually be AWEsome (am I this easy?! =)
2nd - Art style is a wee bit less my thing, although again not true exactly, I have no outspoken opinion on artstyle, but I am wondering about the "glow"?.I'm hoping it's like in GW some sort of result of maxing the graphs, so that it can be disabled or minimized by toying a bit with graph settings.The cheerfullnes doesn't bother me, the glowing is not really my thing (sorry lar)
3rd - The dialogue system seems fabulous, it even received some very interested looks from my BF who is not realy an isometric fan (so I'm rooting for that ^^).I agree that it also offers some very nice SP possibilities.Also I'm quite curious how/if the choises you make will have an alignment/reputation/-ish influence and if yes, how that influences the world around you (In dd it was very well present if i recall correct, and it was so..lifelike)..and yes ofcourse I'm looking forward to some very funny conversations ..Maybe it's wishfull thinking but in DD and BD I sometimes really had the impression I could hear the flemish humour in the conversation, maybe I can rustle up an example as I'm playing DD again
4th - storyline..Ofcourse for this I need to play the game but I'm not worried.This is one of the things where you guys have never dissapointed me so, I shouldn't see why you would start now =p
5th - world interaction and combining (bit on same tree for me) - finally..a game that does this again..I remember doing the dishes in DD,or pouring a beer ^^ creating a bed from two haystacks..the more the better, a vision you clearly share *hero*
1Q though, I thought somewhere I read something about moving on "zeshoeken" (sorry don't know the english word)..I'm presuming/hoping this is only in combat mode, and that exploring is just RT no?
I am very much looking forward to this, very curious about the music too..I remember with DD it was playing in the background for hours sometimes before I noticed, because it was just that good..Twas the soundtrack of my life during the times I played it ^^.. If your revenue could be ensured by my mouth-to-mouth commercial you'ld all be rich, but since that's not happening I'll just keep sharing this and talking about it to whomever wants to listen.. (and even those that don't want to :p )
Too many good games requiring Steam nowadays...Steam DRM that is.
So I'll say it here: no DRM = day-one buy from me, even though I'm less than excited about the game so far. I support devs who shun DRM, plain and simple.
I'm not a big fan of DRM if only for the little inconveniences. Unless we're talking about 'always online DRM' I can stomach it for a game I want to support. My only hope is that the game sells exceptionally well, in order to get Larian excited and confident enough to stick to the turnbased, party RPG style.
Sounds like a good game, provided installing Steam is not a requirement, as Steam is a deal breaker for me.
Originally Posted by slimgrin
Too many good games requiring Steam nowadays...Steam DRM that is.
So I'll say it here: no DRM = day-one buy from me, even though I'm less than excited about the game so far. I support devs who shun DRM, plain and simple.
It seems like every Divinity game now is going to hit GoG.com year later after the release. So you always can wait for DRM-free version with some bonuses (like OST and concept-art).
I first place I was a little bit disppointed discovering Larian's Project E is not Div III but something else ! But reading all articles and the post on the forums I'm really happy now ! I hope a new laptop from the year 2013 can handle Divnity: Original Sin, yes it must ! I'm planning to buy a laptop in the future (not before the support for windows XP stops!), give me more flexibilty moving a PC everywhere in my house I want play the newest Larian game all day and all night .... in bed, bath, sofa, workroom, toilet, on a table or on the floor, ...
Coop play? Maybe a chance I can introduce my girlfriend to the rpg genre and play together, each on a laptop ... or how ? Yes, HOW do you play in coop ? Is that via a in-house connection between 2 pc's or is this only goint to work via the world wide internet ?
Real Turn Based combat ? I believe I can only support this decision of Lar for 1001 % !! I like variation also ! Soo many rpg's with real time combat ... In both ways (TB and RT), nice developed, both can be a thrilling experience, I'm sure!! Even "Chess" is a thrilling game if you ask me !
I still have my questions & suggestions for Divnity :Original Sin, but soon I come back ask questions or give suggestions
to all ...
On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin, it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
That's a pretty impressive blog. I must admit I had never even considered how expensive game publishing might be and it sounds totally brutal. Just the basic cost for ONE expo in ONE country during ONE year is a pretty good yearly salary for many people! That's scary stuff!
The idea is that the inclusion of the cooperative mode actually increases the quality of your single player experience. How that's going to work exactly I'll reserve for a future post, but rest assured that we're focussed on making single player as cool as we can.
I can only corroborate what Swen said before: the single player experience is just as important to us as the multiplayer one.
Originally Posted by Lar_q
Yeah, I've seen that which means we didn't communicate very well, but t think the debate is going to move away as we show more and more stuff. The cooperative mechanics translate very well to party mechanics in single player, and the system is much more complex than might be surmised from the little details we've shown so far. Rather than type essays about it, I think we'll address this in a future video under the motto show, don't tell
I don't know about public demos, but they are showing the games to a bunch of press in 15 minute time slots. They put up a video of some of their preparation for E3, so I assume we'll eventually get more details on the games, as well.
We've filmed the presentations & are working on getting a video from that to you. Most likely it'll be up tomorrow.
You're all so fantastic people at Larian Studios !! A big to all of you .
On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin, it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
We've filmed the presentations & are working on getting a video from that to you. Most likely it'll be up tomorrow.
You're all so fantastic people at Larian Studios !! A big to all of you .
yes indeed, I love how they really keep you posted..It's like their baby, and they want to share it with the world, and all of us are dribbling aunts and uncles, begging to hold it for a couple of mins. ^^
Hi all. I am brand new, and I joined because of the E3 "D:OS" announcement, but I have to say that this game looks very well done.
I love the style and gameplay. The elemental interplay reminds me of Magicka. It looks like an awesome game and I would/will support when pre-order is available.
I love to see smaller studios come out with amazing products. Well done and congrats on the announcement.
"Sarah's is at home but she's not alone. She's been taken hostage by this suicide bomber here. *Dramatic music continues to play in the background* And he says, "don't come any closer or I'll blow myself up.""
Suicide bombers in Divinity? Well that's something new.
I must say that I hated the suicide grants in Halo and suicidal goblins in LOTR: War in The North. They appear to be a mob enemy in one area as well in Divinity: Original Sin judging by one screen shot. So I'm guessing ranged shots/abilities would be best to use against them as I imagine they explode upon death?
"Robert is a wollock mage that can charm himself into looking like a human. The story behind Robert is that he's going around and seducing and sleeping with every woman he comes across. He then leaves a suicide bomber behind."
Wollocks? I'm losing count of all these sentient species.
Divine Divinity mentioned Halflings and Hawk-men. Divinity 2 added goblins, but eliminated well EVERYTHING except humans, goblins, imps and some slaver-labour orcs.
Speaking of which, orcs apparently didn't exist in the days of Dragon Commander, yet undead get their own country? I thought Yuthul Gor was the home of the orcs, but that's the home of the imps?
Well, I'm pretty sure imps are inter-dimensional beings. Pretty much every imp you run across is either in another dimension or has some kind of access to other dimensions.
Except for all those imps in the Wastelands. They may have just been summoned there.
There's also an ancient, deserted imp castle in the Dark Forest. But who knows if they originally built or just lived there at some point...
I think we'll just have to get used to Larian playing fast and loose with the lore. No glaring contradictions. It all kinda fits together.
Orcs were created the same time as the other 5 main races. From the DD book 'A Short History of the Seven Gods':
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When the seven Gods were still young they decided that each of them should have their own race which they would guide through the eternal flow of time. And thus it happened that Rhalic, the most powerful of all Gods, become the patron of the humans. The burly Duna created the dwarves in his own likeness and even lived with them for a long time in tunnels deep beneath the earth. Tir-Cendelius, who is also called the Poet, went into the woods and created the elves. He blessed them with near-immortality and wisdom. The reptile goddess Zorl-Stissa wished to command a proud warrior race and thus she created the lizard people - fierce fighters from the Wastelands.
The God Vrogir, renowned for his brutality and acts of violence created the orcs and enslaved them for more than three hundred years before he left Rivellon. Xantezza, the Goddess of mirth and laughter wanted an intelligent race, versed in the arts of magic around her. She created the imps, who were talented magicians and engineers. The Goddess Amadia was an outsider, preferring to live in complete solitude. As the centuries passed the six races spread over the whole continent. One day Amadia fell in love with a wizard and she give birth to several demi-gods. She granted her lover immortality and decided that she would act as the patron mother of the wizards. Although wizards are not really considered as a separate race, they now have their own goddess whom they worship...
They could totally pull a "Dragon Age" and introduce an entrenched mythology/religion only to have it be one possible explanation for the world being the way it is.
If you haven't played that game, then very early on it presents the player with an explanation for the creation of the world (the Maker) the existence of magic (the Fade) the bad guys (Darkspawn are corrupted mages who violated the Maker's golden city). And all sorts of other stuff about a magic prophet (cross between Joan of Arc and Jesus), etc. etc.
A typical player (like me) would think, "alright, I understand the basic lore now." Only, this is basically like accepting the King James Bible as the one and only explanation of (our) universe. Dragon Age leaves it truly unanswered just how all these mystical things came to be.
And in fact you get this with other games too. The Sacred universe has its 6 gods, well established throughout the land, but the Seraphim are adamant that there is in fact only one.
It's just a possibility, that could be a lot of fun, depending on how much Larian wants to delve into/play around with the lore....
"Robert is a wollock mage that can charm himself into looking like a human. The story behind Robert is that he's going around and seducing and sleeping with every woman he comes across. He then leaves a suicide bomber behind."
Leaves "suicide bomber", haha. I see what was done there.
Raze I think he knows that and he meant that Orcs were extinct
"You have met the mysterious "monster-slayer for hire" who calls himself "Gerolt the White Wolf". During the conversation you discover that he is just a cowardly swindler who robs village people by tricking them into believing in his supernatural skills. In reality, he managed to build a device that allows him to control the behaviour of many creatures - from which he can profit.".
You will have 3 options to finish this quest:
1) You can expose his shameful behaviour & let the village people lynch him [village people will pay you large ammount of gold for it]
2) You can promise Gerolt that you won't expose him, but in return he will have to give you his silver sword.
3) You can kill Gerlot and steal his mind control device [you will be able to control one creature that will fight on your side].
Well, I'm pretty sure imps are inter-dimensional beings. Pretty much every imp you run across is either in another dimension or has some kind of access to other dimensions.
Except for all those imps in the Wastelands. They may have just been summoned there.
There's also an ancient, deserted imp castle in the Dark Forest. But who knows if they originally built or just lived there at some point...
I think we'll just have to get used to Larian playing fast and loose with the lore. No glaring contradictions. It all kinda fits together.
There's only one dimension-traveling imp as far as I know, so it's an exaggeration to say "every imp" has access to another dimension.
There are plenty of glaring contradictions, so much so in Divinity 2 that I suspected that Larian didn't get anyone to actually play through Divine Divinity before tossing in references to it.
Zixzax-the-Almost-Wise is completely different, different appearance, different skin tone, different reason for his name, and he claims that the Divine stole HIS teleporter stones, when one was in a locked room in the Aleroth catacombs and the other was in Lanilor's closet. Zizzax was the one who stole them from the Divine - and returned them later without ever making a claim of ownership.
The Engineer in Divine Divinity didn't come across to me as a millenium-old supernatural robot, but apparently he was.
Thelyron Hashnitor's journals gave the impression that he was alive when he made a deal with Mardaneus and was only dead for a decade or so, but Behrlihn says he spent "a long undead life" in search of chaos magic.
There are others, but I'd have to look them up.
Each game adds and subtracts entire sentient species that were never referenced before (and/or are missing entirely after). The Divinity universe doesn't "play fast and loose" with the lore, each game seems to have different lore which is all piled up into a disorganized heap.
We already have had a long conversation about that in Divinity 2 section of the forums. And not just one. Unfortunately, such mistakes are unavoidable when it comes to RPG videogames, especially if the sequel weren't actually (read: solid planing) planned from the beginning.
Unlike with the books (belletristic ie fantasy), the game isn't always about the story and setting, a lot of it dedicated to visuals, audio setup and gameplay. Sometimes the latter can be so good that saves bad storywriting/setting (and vice versa).
I know, I know (although I'll disagree with you on the "unavoidable" part). I love the Divinity games (well, not so much Beyond Divinity), and I'll buy them, but I will admit that the handling of some things just bugs me.
There's only one dimension-traveling imp as far as I know, so it's an exaggeration to say "every imp" has access to another dimension.
There are plenty of glaring contradictions, so much so in Divinity 2 that I suspected that Larian didn't get anyone to actually play through Divine Divinity before tossing in references to it.
Zixzax-the-Almost-Wise is completely different, different appearance, different skin tone, different reason for his name, and he claims that the Divine stole HIS teleporter stones, when one was in a locked room in the Aleroth catacombs and the other was in Lanilor's closet. Zizzax was the one who stole them from the Divine - and returned them later without ever making a claim of ownership.
The Engineer in Divine Divinity didn't come across to me as a millenium-old supernatural robot, but apparently he was.
Thelyron Hashnitor's journals gave the impression that he was alive when he made a deal with Mardaneus and was only dead for a decade or so, but Behrlihn says he spent "a long undead life" in search of chaos magic.
There are others, but I'd have to look them up.
Each game adds and subtracts entire sentient species that were never referenced before (and/or are missing entirely after). The Divinity universe doesn't "play fast and loose" with the lore, each game seems to have different lore which is all piled up into a disorganized heap.
Well, heck, NOTHING looks or sounds the same between Divinity and Divinity 2. In that single respect I'd say your standards are way too high in what constitutes a glaring contradiction.
Now, about the imps...mine was an either/or statement. Not many are actively traveling, true. Zixzax is. Zaknadrix and Antx have/are in the magic sphere that gives entry to the Arakand universe. The imps that assault you just after becoming the Divine One disappear by doing a backflip into thin air.
I'm not sure they have a homeland because everywhere they are, they seem to be there as intruders or exiles. There's the imp village on Nemesis. The ancient castle in the Dark Forest. The hordes in the Wastelands. And then there's the really old PR material from before Divinity's release:
"The little devils have mysterious origins, with nobody knowing exactly where they came from. Theories range from the Imps existing as magical beings, to being experiments gone horribly wrong, to being former inhabitants of the fairy lands, expelled for their obnoxious behavior. None of these theories is really verifiable, however, since Imps have a particularly unpleasant disposition."
The rest I won't comment on, because, apparently, it's the subject of other threads.
Or building your own cottage with barrels, pieces of wood, branches, crates, .... or dig your own cave wherein you place torches or candle light so you can "see" what you're "talking about" ...
But I believe this is something I can dream of or I can try to build such things with the upcoming editor !
On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin, it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
Most likely. D:OS will be have a digital and retail release, but no details have been announced yet. Steamworks will be used for online multi-player and to distribute player made mods.
Don't want to make a new topic for such a small question, so i raise this from the dead. (am i a Sith Lord, or not, hehehe)
Larian folks, will you make a game where we can play as Damian? But not with all those blonde pussies like in SW Starkiller game, whatever it's name is. And without those "oooooh help this little kid to be not so evil" type of quests. Will you have the guts to make a game with the look from the other side?
I remember i have asked the Egosoft guys on their forum - will they make a game where we play as an AI, like, the Xenon. To show us the lore of the terraformer AI, their story and all. They just remained silent. I guess they better go on cloning the same shit just with different color scheme...
What about you guys? Will you pour some fresh water into this pool?
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, and the ambition is to give you exactly that and more. 
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to all of you . 
