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Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: Kein] #478155
14/01/14 11:33 PM
14/01/14 11:33 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 292
Russia,Khabarovsk
James 540 Offline
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Ohoho-) Under "Real Fans" I meant people who can accept Larian as is whatever they do,and if something go completely wrong then would guide them and support morally when it would important and I thing this should be people quite smart at least not so stupid to judge and avoid Larian for only LOT of Bugs,for absence Crysis-level graphics and etc...

@LordCrash-Of course everyone have right to impress our opinions .There is no right and wrong ones It`s forum after all

I belive Larian is quite wisdom to separate oranges from apples

Even Early Access would bad deal they`ll get one more lesson and gain more experience and it help them make their games better -Errare humanum est-

Last edited by James 540; 14/01/14 11:37 PM.

Experience is a hard master but a good teacher-Proverb of RPG player (c)
Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: Kein] #478156
15/01/14 12:24 AM
15/01/14 12:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,801
Germany
LordCrash Offline

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Originally Posted By: Kein
Originally Posted By: LordCrash
Originally Posted By: Kein
Quote:
I belive that Real fans

Difference between real fans and "fanboys" is the the first actually care and not afraid to express their opinion if they think something is wrong and why it is wrong, the second just blidnly follow, like a puppy, and pretend to care.


What do you want to say?

I said that I think that Early Access is NOT wrong.


And I said you should be more careful in your quick judgment and labels.


Quick judgement? sad

I think that I've made my point clear (like you did) and there is no need to slag my opinion by calling it a quick judgement. Or I misinterpret you because you don't say precisely what you mean....


WOOS
Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: LordCrash] #478158
15/01/14 08:01 AM
15/01/14 08:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 45
Norway
krist2 Offline

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@LordCrash
As I read Kein's post, I understood it as a comment on James 540 post about "Real Fans".
Kein just explained his understanding of "Real Fans" versus "Fan Boys".
I don't think he meant to imply that you, or any body else, was just blindly following.

Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: James 540] #478159
15/01/14 08:22 AM
15/01/14 08:22 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,033
Soviet Empire
Kein Offline
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Originally Posted By: James 540
Ohoho-) Under "Real Fans" I meant people who can accept Larian as is whatever they do

So, fanboys.

Quote:
if something go completely wrong then would guide them

I tried to imagine how this supposed to work and it made my morning, haha.

LordCrash
I have no idea why you replied to me, since it wasn't quote of yours, but I decided to reply to you just to increase confusion you already started.

Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: Kein] #478162
15/01/14 09:29 AM
15/01/14 09:29 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 292
Russia,Khabarovsk
James 540 Offline
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James 540  Offline
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Russia,Khabarovsk
I think who wanted to understand me they did

There is no need to read exactly One sentense which seems to you especially important , read the whole message and then you`ll understand me correctly (I hope so)
About Fanboys and Real fans
In this case you (not you exactly Kein but everyone) should find the Gold Middle

I cannot explain this better I`m sorry (-



Last edited by James 540; 15/01/14 09:38 AM.

Experience is a hard master but a good teacher-Proverb of RPG player (c)
Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: LordCrash] #478163
15/01/14 09:34 AM
15/01/14 09:34 AM
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Robcat Offline

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Ok.

Well, after that interesting little diversion, I'd like to quote LC's suggestion as it seems like something worth talking about...

Originally Posted By: LordCrash

As an alternative:

Why not opening up Divinity Original Sin for preorder on Steam and giving every person preordering the game access to the beta version?


Usually people are more forgiving when playing a beta named beta than playing an early access game. It's really just a wording thing but words can be important when it comes to expectations and treatment of games and stuff.


This seems like a great idea to me. Though I'm not overly familiar with steam itself, so I'm not sure exactly how this would work differently to just going the early access route.

Would it get the same amount of exposure? As in would there still be a chance for it to get featured on the front page and other prominent areas? And how would it work since the game is already listed in the steam libraries? Someone made the good point in the comments on Swen's blog post that the game is currently listed as 'Divinity Original Sin', without specifying that it an alpha version. I wonder if this could be changed or if a separate early access (preorder?) version could be named differently. Backers already what they are playing so the current listing doesn't matter so much for them.


Edit: No worries James, personally I really liked what you wrote and took it in the spirit in which I believe it was meant. Indeed, I found that your post had a rather powerful eloquence to it BECAUSE of its modest english. Larian's heart sure seems like it's in the right place, and I'm confident they'll do a great early access 'campaign' if they feel that it's worth a go. Plenty of people are quietly cheering them on, as I'm sure everyone in this thread is, despite any misgivings we may share.

Last edited by Robcat; 15/01/14 09:58 AM.

"Love one another and you will be happy. It's as simple and as difficult as that" - Leunig
Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: Robcat] #478164
15/01/14 10:17 AM
15/01/14 10:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,057
Canada
Raze Offline

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Steam apparently doesn't support removing betas when they are no longer necessarily (have seen this reported for a few games), and with Dragon Commander even people who bought the game on Steam after release got the (then useless) beta entry in their libraries.

Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: Raze] #478167
15/01/14 01:35 PM
15/01/14 01:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 701
meme Offline

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I think - to be successful - if they do steam early access they have to be prepared to respond to posts on the steam forum either daily or at the very least a couple of times of weeks. This is a much higher participation than we see here but that seems to be what is making blackguard quite successful. Silence tends to result in negative reaction (i guess people imagination run wild). Anyway I'm not sure that level of participation is required but it does seem to set folks at ease even if they don't like the answer.

Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: Stabbey] #478168
15/01/14 01:46 PM
15/01/14 01:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 142
Niedersachsen, Germany
tarasis Offline

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I have no issue with Early Access in general, I do have a little beef that people are able to get early access to Wasteland 2 ahead of backers. I backed at $50 so I'm not entitled to the beta and that's fair enough, but I helped to back the game long before EA people came along.

It's why I was so impressed when Larian turned around and said everyone who backed can have access to the alpha. I just wish I could partake but my machine can't handle it. (My one comment from briefly playing: have option to turn shadows off completely because low detail shadows are awful!)

If Larian figure they can handle the negativity from people who don't understand that it's an incomplete early release, then go for it.

Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: tarasis] #478174
15/01/14 04:46 PM
15/01/14 04:46 PM
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Germany
LordCrash Offline

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So, I thought Swen said yesterday that the decision is due to yesterday or today?!....

What is it? Steam Early Accesss? Yes or no? Or some kind of other solution like beta access for preorders?

wink


WOOS
Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: tarasis] #478177
15/01/14 06:14 PM
15/01/14 06:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,057
Canada
Raze Offline

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Originally Posted By: tarasis
have option to turn shadows off completely because low detail shadows are awful!

You can disable shadows, just not from the in-game options. In the ..\Documents\Larian Studios\Divinity Original Sin\ folder, you can edit the graphicSettings.lsx file in Wordpad, or other text editor, search for the term ShadowsEnabled (as below) and change the one to a zero.

<node id="ConfigEntry">
<attribute id="MapKey" value="ShadowsEnabled" type="22" />
<attribute id="Type" value="0" type="5" />
<attribute id="Value" value="1" type="4" />
</node>

Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: LordCrash] #478181
15/01/14 11:57 PM
15/01/14 11:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 749
Lar_q Offline

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@LC: We (almost) have the build, we (almost) have the trailer, we're setting up the store pages - but you're right, we're undecided between the beta/preorder format and early access format. TBD, soon, very soon wink

Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: Lar_q] #478182
16/01/14 12:33 AM
16/01/14 12:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
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For all of us current kickstarter alpha participants: will our current key/install be considered an EA key and thus a key for the full game eventually? Assuming you go the EA route that is.

Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: SniperHF] #478191
16/01/14 07:27 AM
16/01/14 07:27 AM
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Dasyure Offline
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The OP seems to have had a good hunch or have a good information-gathering ability. I agree that Steam Early Access is a kind of mixed beast. There are still plenty of posts coming which complain of the price of the Wasteland 2 EA although there is a pinned thread explaining it. Also, there is a relatively new function of reviewing games even if it is listed as EA (Are these reviews going to be deleted once the final version is available?). In any case, I think there are still things desired for Steam EA to efficiently help people to find their favorite games without coming across unwanted aspects of the Internet. That said, if the devs decided to give it a go despite of possible risks, I have nothing against it.

Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: Dasyure] #478194
16/01/14 10:39 AM
16/01/14 10:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 59
LiŤge, Belgium
Baalka Offline
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LiŤge, Belgium
I agree with what have been said by some, and that preorder with beta access would probably do more good than Steam Early Access. Preorders do not shadow the 'true' release in any fashion, the BETA state of the game is more obvious, and I can't see any thing that SEA does that a regular preorder does not. Maybe a little less visibility? But I remember reading (in Swen's blog I guess) that DC's preorders did very well on their own.

At the end of the day, it's up to you Larian, and I understand the attractiveness of SEA, though I'm not that found of it Ė I won't argue here, many already did. You made it clear when giving Alpha keys to backer that it was alpha, and not to be played if we don't want to spoil our gaming experience in any way ; so I trust it won't be any less clear for the EAS.

Only, as suggested by some, make sure to display the game as 'Original Sin ALPHA', as it's been done for DC, on Steam.

It's great that you bide your time thinking about it, and that you're listening to community's opinion wink Must not be such an easy decision.

Last edited by Baalka; 16/01/14 10:41 AM.
Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: Baalka] #478196
16/01/14 11:42 AM
16/01/14 11:42 AM
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Posts: 310
Belgium
dwelfusius Offline

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Itís all about money, if you need the revenue from EA (uergh i will refrain from using that abbreviation again) to fix the game or implement promised/needed stuff essential to the good of the game I would say go for it.
But if not for that why not do the pre-purchase + alpha/beta thing.You get feedback ,people can clearly see itís still in dev and you get revenue..

And for people saying RPG is not an appropriate game type for Early Access Ė> I kind of agree BUT you donít need to play story..I have several hours in D:OS alpha just learning mechanics,gui,how the world works, skills and what have you not. So when it comes out I will be lord of the Divinity universe(shamelessly copied from my FB post smile I am lazy like that smile
edit:
Only EA(shudder) game I ever played is SNOW because a decent
sportslike game from a developer not affiliated to E.A. should get all the support it can get:)



"Dwelfusius | Were-axlotl of Original Sin"

Hardcorus RPGus PCus Extremus
Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: dwelfusius] #478201
16/01/14 12:19 PM
16/01/14 12:19 PM
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Posts: 2,033
Soviet Empire
Kein Offline
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Quote:
if you need the revenue from EA (uergh i will refrain from using that abbreviation again)


Funny how it looks the same as the abbreviation of Electronic Arts.

This is not a coincidence :3

Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: Lar_q] #478203
16/01/14 01:08 PM
16/01/14 01:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 701
meme Offline

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At this point I think D:OS really is early access and not beta; and therefore I think it should be named for what it represents. The reason I feel it is EA is because it is not feature (or area) complete. To myself beta implies that you are playing the full game with a few minor bugs. Then again perhaps the build you intend to release on steam is in fact a full build but I suspect it will still have a few missing areas and features.

Originally Posted By: Lar_q
@LC: We (almost) have the build, we (almost) have the trailer, we're setting up the store pages - but you're right, we're undecided between the beta/preorder format and early access format. TBD, soon, very soon wink

Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: Baalka] #478204
16/01/14 01:34 PM
16/01/14 01:34 PM
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Posts: 560
Elwyn Offline
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Since I do not have time right now to type a detailed response, I'll just quote the opinion with which I completely agree:

Originally Posted By: Baalka
I agree with what have been said by some, and that preorder with beta access would probably do more good than Steam Early Access. Preorders do not shadow the 'true' release in any fashion, the BETA state of the game is more obvious, and I can't see any thing that SEA does that a regular preorder does not. Maybe a little less visibility? But I remember reading (in Swen's blog I guess) that DC's preorders did very well on their own.

At the end of the day, it's up to you Larian, and I understand the attractiveness of SEA, though I'm not that found of it Ė I won't argue here, many already did. You made it clear when giving Alpha keys to backer that it was alpha, and not to be played if we don't want to spoil our gaming experience in any way ; so I trust it won't be any less clear for the EAS.

Only, as suggested by some, make sure to display the game as 'Original Sin ALPHA', as it's been done for DC, on Steam.

It's great that you bide your time thinking about it, and that you're listening to community's opinion wink Must not be such an easy decision.

Re: Please don't do Steam Early Access with D:OS [Re: Elwyn] #478210
16/01/14 03:33 PM
16/01/14 03:33 PM
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Stabbey Offline
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Yeah, Pre-orders with Beta Access will get a MUCH better reaction than "Early Access". It's much clearer what you're paying for. It sounds more like getting a bonus of beta access than "paying full-price for a buggy version".

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