Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity Original Sin - Help/Tips/Tricks Action Points and how it is calculated?

Hi everyone! Just a sidenote, this is the best day 1 purchase I've made in a long long long time.

With that being said, I was hoping someone could tell me how action points are calculated with regards to speed. More specifically, I'm talking about "Turn Action Points".

Let's use my Madora as an example. She's level 10, and with everything unequipped she has 6 in Speed and 7 in Constitution (I bring this up because even though the tooltip doesn't say, it seems Constitution affects my Turn Action Points). Hovering over "Action Points", it says my Turn Action Points = 6, a base of 4 and +2 from Speed.

Now, I equip a helmet (+1 Constitution, +1 Leadership, +1 Sneaking). From the tooltip, this SHOULD NOT affect my Turn Action Points. However, with a Constitution of 8(7+1), my Turn Action Points are now 8, with the tooltip saying Base = 4, Speed = +2. Aka, the same tooltip as before, but somehow +2 to Turn Action Points?

I unequip the helmet, then equip a 2 handed weapon that gives me +1 to Speed. Now, with 7(6+1) in Speed, 7 in Constitution, I get 9 Turn Action Points, base = 4 Speed = +3.

I re-equip the helmet while having the 2 handed weapon equipped, still same Turn Action Points (9), same tooltip.

I add in some Boots that among other things, give +1 to Speed. So now my Constitution = 8, Speed = 8. Still same Turn Action Points (9), with tooltip saying base = 4 Speed = +3.

I add in a ring that give +1 Speed, (con = 8, speed = 9). My turn action points = 10, with tooltip saying base = 4 Speed = +4.

I remove the helm (con = 7, speed = 9), same result as above.

What the heck is going on? Can someone explain to me? I really want to understand how my Turn Action Points are calculated as they are an important factor in character building.

I will add an imgur album of all these screenshots. Thanks!

Imgur: http://imgur.com/a/UFAjj

Maximum Action Points = cap for a given turn for which you have points saved.

Calculated using Constitution+Base.

Start Action Points = the # you start a battle with.

Calculated by (Speed*0.5)+(Perc*0.5)+Base rounded down to the nearest whole number.

For instance I have 11 Speed and 10 Perc and a Base of 2. Therefore I have 12 total starting AP

Turn Action Points = number you gain in turns after your initial turn.

Calculated by (Speed*0.5)+base

I believe this is the number displayed on the character sheet as AP.


Summary
Constitution affects max potential AP on a given turn.
Perc affects AP you'll start a given battle with.
Speed affects starting and regular turn AP.

Yeah, but Mylkal's "Turn Action Points" do not appear to be calculating correctly.

Mylkal, do you have any talents or spell effects that need to be taken into account?

Hey guys thanks for the responses.

n3m3c1s, where did you get that information about the calculations? Is that in the game somewhere?

The only talent that I have on Madora that might be influencing this is "What A Rush", but that should only be triggering at <30%. Perhaps this is a bug?

Going by n3m3c1s formulas, Constitution shouldn't affect Turn Action Points at all, but it clearly is from my screenshots :S.

Something is very wrong here but I have no idea what.
Constitution has no effect on TURN AP in my game.
However, I do not receive TURN AP at a rate of Speed/2. For example, I get a boost at 7 speed, but not 8 Speed or 9 Speed.
START AP seems to be working correctly using 1/2 Per + 1/2 Speed. So is MAX AP, at a rate of 1/Con.

I read somewhere that TURN AP is granted at Base + (Speed * 0.33) rounded down. Therefore you should get a boost at 7, 10, 13, 16 Speed.

Yeah the constitution (helmet) affecting my Turn AP seems really strange. But Speed * 0.33 seems to make some sense as the screenshots above show that my Turn AP didn't go up until my Speed hit 10.

What Constitution were you at when testing in your game?

Also, maybe its because my "What A Rush" talent on Madora is bugged, and its somehow calculating the health trigger threshold wrong, giving me extra AP when it shouldn't, which is why Constitution is affecting my Turn AP? Should I ask a mod to move this thread into the bug forum maybe?

I noticed the same on Madora.
Her character stats are reporting 9 AP. I think it is a bug, but not reliant on constitution applying a hidden modifier.

[EDIT: See Sword below]The "What a Rush" talent gives +2 AP. Madora would normally have 7 AP. I'm guessing that this extra AP is somehow just not being reverted once she has more than 30% health. Maybe when "Comeback Kid" initiates and Madora escapes death the "What a Rush" talent doesn't end after she is healed past 30%?
[/EDIT]

[Edit:Sword] I went back to an early savegame and checked Madora. She has 6 speed and reports 6 AP in stats, so all normal. Until I equip or re-equip a greatsword called "Salved Old Executioner's Sword of the Geomancer" then her AP turns light blue and is increased to 8.

Other swords do not have this effect. There is another, subsequent, savegame that has Madora's AP stat as a permanent 8 even though there has been no actual in-game event that would do this to my knowledge.

I may be able to replicate this bug as the time stamp between temporary increase in AP and permanent increase in AP is about 3 hours in-game or :30 minutes +/- real time. I'm still betting on "Comeback Kid" triggering this permanence effect as the save just before the AP becomes permanent is pre-rescue of an Archeologist. Madora may have been reduced to near death during that event.

Giving this theory a go.
[/Edit:Sword]

[Edit:Wounding]
Weird bug for sure.
I was able to reproduce Madora's AP increase from 6 to 8. She gets hit once by first skeleton that attacks Legion archeologist. Turn AP stat increases from 6 to 8 {permanent}. Strangely, un-equipping then re-equipping magical sword changes turn AP from 6 to 8 but 8 is temporary increase {pre-wounding only}. Only when Madora is first hit does her turn AP become 8 {permanent}. On top of all that, once she falls below 30% health her talent "What a Rush" does indeed add +2 turn AP BUT her new perm 8 AP does not go up to 10. Her stat report on hover shows what it "should", in other words, base:4 +2 for speed of 6 and + 2 for what a rush.

Is this the same for anyone else?

I'm having the same "bug" with Madora. But for me its the armor instead of sword. Like you i thought "What a Rush" is the culprit and i tried unequipping and equipping but i still get 9AP instead of 7AP. I then saved and reloaded it went back to 7AP, but when i took of the armor and wear it again, it went back to 9AP. I tried with different armor with similar stats but only that specific armor managed to bring me to 9AP, i cannot find any explanation.

ZoDoZ, yeah I actually get some really strange Turn AP interactions after combat when Madora get's hit/triggers her talents, and then I switch her equipment. I didn't bother including it in the first post because I was too lazy to replicate in controlled environment, but I fully understand what you're saying and I have had it happen to me.

Maybe its time to move this to the bug forum? How do I even do that?

I didn't make the connection for awhile, but eventually I realized that the items that seemed to cause it were ones with +constitution. What A Rush is always active when you are not full health and it is not a bug unique to Madora.

I hope when they fix this they will also increase the percentage of Health required for What A Rush to <50%. If someone's down to 30% chances are they're going to die real fast.

Ahh...that'd make sense lol. I wish the Action Points detail would have a tooltip that shows +TurnAP from other sources besides Speed.

How many other sources are there anyways?

The tooltip is often wrong if you just read the number on the front.

When you go in you can clearly see how many APs you can save, begin combat with and earn each round.

Every 2 points of speed over 5 net you 1 extra AP a turn. So a speed 5 person gets 6 a round, speed 7 gets 7, speed 9 gets 8 etc.
Every 2 points of speed and perception together over 5 nets you 1 starting AP per combat. So those with 5s in both get 7 to begin with, but a speed 6 perception 6 person has the same total as a speed 7 perception 5 person (which would be starting combat with 8).

In terms of Action points - Speed is king, but perception can help out too.

So in formulaic terms:
Starting AP = 2 + 50%(speed+perception) rounded down.
Turn AP = 4 + 50% (speed-1) round down.

You shouldn't find the action points are affected by what the character sheet says, only what you find in the tooltip itself. Also the tooltip DOES include permanent sources of AP modification such as Glass Cannon or Lone Wolf.

Btw - interesting point concerning the Action Points and Speed.
My dexchar has Speed 13 Perp 7 Con 9 (Base 10 speed, Base 5 perp/con) while my Gf's Wiz has Speed 10 Perp 3 Con 12 (Base 8 speed, 9 con, perp 5 - 3 tomes). My Gf's wizard has glass cannon too.

Dexchar starts combat with 12 APs and gets 10 a round, while the Wizard starts on 8 and gets 16 a round.

Healthwise I'm on 1100 while she has 850, but until around level 12 her health kept up with mine.. so Glass Cannon is definitely a good investment for people who want stupid amounts of action points.

My dexchar has 18 dex (6 from gear) but could get away with a 12 total, so I could've put more points into Con, glass cannoned my way into 20 aps a round easily for the low cost of only a couple hundred health (after putting some dex points into con to supplement it). Glass Cannon is definitely a powerful tool for APs and doesn't have to come at the expense of speed.

It seems what a rush is activated when your character is not in max hp, i tested myself and find this problem too.

When I am in full hp, the turn action points is correct, then i remove my boot which add 60hp, then rewield it, now my hp is not full, like 300/360, so there is the problem, the turn action points is increased by 2. So i guess its caused by what a rush.

Yes, it is... it's been this way since beta.
Guess they didn't fix the talent since then.

Got a few screens to prove it very clearly I will post in my own thread, and then hope Larian sees it (or this one)...

So if you want to get your action points up, you need to raise you con, perc, and speed. Correct? I'd like to have the most I can every turn, and of course at the beginning of battle. Is there anything else I need to know to have to most possible action points that I can get?

You don't need to put points into perception if you want to increase your Start Action Points (SAP) and Turn Action Points (TAP), since you get the same SAP bonus if you add those points to speed instead, but get additional TAP on top of it.
You only have to put points into constitution when your max AP value would become less than your TAP.
This becomes a big necessity when you have the talent Glass Cannon, especially in combination with Lone Wolf.

That's why 7 Con 5 Speed is optimal for early Lone Wolf + Glass Cannon characters.

That depends. Considering that there are so few good belts for the early level, my team typically uses the craftable +1 Constitution Skullbelts. So my recommendation is either to use 6 5 or try to get to 9 7 (with gear) by the time you reach level 5 (which is when you unlock Glass Cannon).

Generally, just hover your mouse over the "Action Points" entry in the inventory, it will give a complete rundown of how much beginning AP you get from speed and perception, how many additional AP per turn from speed (and glass cannon) and what's your max AP based on constitution...

Which you should invest in depends what you want to improve.
Major first strike; Perception (also useful for secrets and traps, so definitely one char should get this)
Lots of AP per turn; speed (or using the GC-tactic floating around, GC and con)
High AP Max; Constitution. Normally this really never is an issue, except with Glass Cannon you might get more AP than your max is, and that's just a waste. Also if Max=Turn AP any leftovers go to waste, so then it would be wise to improve it.

Hopefully this isn't too confusing...