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#548354 - 08/27/14 05:24 AM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Geezer]
Rashar Offline
member

Registered: 08/07/14
Posts: 126
Loc: Netherlands
20 times is not a great sample size, I recommend atleast 1000+ preferably 10.000.

With kind regards,

Rashar.

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#548376 - 08/27/14 08:15 AM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Geezer]
dirigible Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/22/14
Posts: 371
I wanted to suggest something which would be physically possible.

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#548399 - 08/27/14 09:26 AM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Geezer]
Rashar Offline
member

Registered: 08/07/14
Posts: 126
Loc: Netherlands
Well 1000-10.000 times is physically possible aswell. I do understand what you meant, though 20 times is just not enough to be able to say that something is wrong/right.

With kind regards,

Rashar.

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#548400 - 08/27/14 09:26 AM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Geezer]
FattyDude Offline
stranger

Registered: 08/27/14
Posts: 2
This is my first post and I specifically registered here for this issue as it was driving me insane in my first playthrough.

I played COOP, Main Singlehanded with shield pure Man-at-Arms, Madorra pure Man-ar-Arms with two-handed, my buddy went lone-wolf glass-cannon mage (not that it matters for this issue, just to give you an overview).

What I noticed is that even when my main-character or Madorra stood surrounded by 4 enemies with a displayed chance to hit of 100% (was higher, if not internally capped thanks to precision stance and blessing), Flurry would miss 1 out of the 4 hits almost always. Also Whirlwind and Dust-Devil where almost certain to miss at least one of the 4 enemies (remember: all of them had a displayed hit-chance of 100%).

Now, granted, I'm only an IT-guy and therefore not extremly high skilled in math, but so far I took a 100% chance to do anything for granted my whole life ^^

tldr: Not even a displayed chance to hit of 100% is really 100% chance to hit.

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#548402 - 08/27/14 09:51 AM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Geezer]
Rashar Offline
member

Registered: 08/07/14
Posts: 126
Loc: Netherlands
While I have no reason to assume that you are not telling the truth, I find it hard to believe.

Mostly because of the following 2 reasons

1: In 3+ playthroughs I did notice anything like that at all. And don't get me wrong I had some misses with auto-attacks aswell sometimes missing 2 times in a row while having 82% to hit, but that happens. I'm an old school d&d player and during my years I have seen a lot of lucky or unlucky stuff happen. In every case something weird happens I would put my money on variance. (which does not mean that you are wrong, I'm just not willing to give you the benefit of the doubt)

2: Skills like flurry, whirlwind, and dust devil don't require a to hit roll and when executing these skills you don't see the to hit %.

I am not saying that I am right/you are wrong, however if this really and I will quote you: "almost always" happens then it should be easy to reproduce and get it on video.

With kind regards,

Rashar.


Edited by Rashar (08/27/14 09:53 AM)

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#548424 - 08/27/14 11:40 AM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Geezer]
FattyDude Offline
stranger

Registered: 08/27/14
Posts: 2
I can absolutely understand your doubts as I would probably say the same if I had never encountered this (and it really doesn't make any sense as I do believe the responsible devs are kind of skilled at what they do).

All I can tell you is that it happened for me and it did happen often enough to be noticeable and drive me nuts.

Regarding your 2. point (Skils and Hit rolls): I have no idea how exactly their hit-change is calculated. While you're right about not needing to roll for the skill itself, the skills do have a have a chance to hit / miss the target. So far I was under the impression that this hit-chance was the same as the shown chance when hovering over a target with the mouse, but maybe I'm gravely mistaken here and skills have a different hit-chance calculation than auto attacks. That actually would explain a lot.

Anyway, in my next playthrough I'll try to catch it on Video.

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#548433 - 08/27/14 01:30 PM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: dirigible]
Geezer Offline
apprentice

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 44
Originally Posted By: dirigible
My advice:
Any time you see 73% chance to hit, save the game.
Then attack. Record the result.
Reload your save, and attack again.
Repeat at least 20 times.

If clinical observation confirms your suspicion, then post a bug report.


A logical diagnostic approach. I'll do it. Until results are in, avoid the number 73 in all forms (lottery tickets, sports uniforms, house numbers, the 73rd floor of extremely tall buildings, etc.) -- this phenomenon could be universal hahaha . Unless of course...you want to miss.

- Geezer


Edited by Geezer (08/28/14 03:24 PM)

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#548441 - 08/27/14 02:30 PM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Geezer]
Horrorscope Offline
addict

Registered: 01/01/11
Posts: 644
Question. What stats can a baddie have that could counter our % to hit? And if that exists is that factored into the displayed To-Hit %? Or is this part of the overall question to Larian, "Does the % to hit display factor in all your reasons to hit and all the enimies reason to evade?"

Side note: As we know Magic is very strong in this game, crowd control probably being the main strength. I ultimately edited skillsdata.txt to add in some real %'s to miss and for CC affects to miss more often, to me it was just too easy to make statues of the enemies and just pick them off. Also added reduction in rounds of how long CC would last as well. To me a better game this way.

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#548449 - 08/27/14 03:14 PM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Geezer]
Ludovician Offline
apprentice

Registered: 08/07/14
Posts: 28
Shields, the shield specialist skill and Defence rating (affected by Dexterity) factor into it, I believe.

Horrorscope: Try playing a game without magic. It's a lot of fun and gets rid of that whole "destroy everything effortlessly" thing. At least until you leave the Cyseal area.

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#548456 - 08/27/14 03:55 PM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Rashar]
dirigible Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/22/14
Posts: 371
Originally Posted By: Rashar
Well 1000-10.000 times is physically possible aswell. I do understand what you meant, though 20 times is just not enough to be able to say that something is wrong/right.

With kind regards,

Rashar.


Repeating it 10,000 times would take approximately one entire day - 24 hours - of constant testing.
That is 3 work-days straight of doing nothing but pressing two buttons and then recording the results.

Maybe someone on earth would voluntarily do that, but I cannot fathom that person.

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#548610 - 08/28/14 11:20 AM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: dirigible]
kalniel Offline
stranger

Registered: 08/13/13
Posts: 19
Originally Posted By: dirigible
My advice:
Any time you see 73% chance to hit, save the game.
Then attack. Record the result.
Reload your save, and attack again.
Repeat at least 20 times.

If clinical observation confirms your suspicion, then post a bug report.

This might be a flawed approach, depending on how the game generates its random numbers. If they actually do a random number generation at the time of the 'dice' roll, then fine. But many games use a pregenerated random string of numbers so reloading won't necessarily affect a 'dice' roll.

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#548668 - 08/28/14 03:48 PM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: kalniel]
aznricepuff Offline
apprentice

Registered: 04/21/14
Posts: 28
Originally Posted By: kalniel
This might be a flawed approach, depending on how the game generates its random numbers. If they actually do a random number generation at the time of the 'dice' roll, then fine. But many games use a pregenerated random string of numbers so reloading won't necessarily affect a 'dice' roll.


This game does not employ a fixed random seed. So his method would work. It'll be extremely time-consuming and boring, but it'll work.

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#548766 - 08/29/14 06:38 AM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Geezer]
Hiver Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/14
Posts: 1041
The method is already applied. Its called playing the game.

btw i have noticed similar thing happening in other games. When it comes to repeated consecutive misses in one turn, 71 to 73 % seems to be some universal sweet spot. Or a freak spot.

Its not so often as in OS but it is noticeable.
Currently being observed in Age of Decadence and wasteland 2.


Have we discovered a flaring fault in the Matrix?
And there are experiments trying to do the same wasting millions currently going on. Hey guise, you can do it for 39,99 you know?

_________________________


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#548838 - 08/29/14 01:46 PM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Geezer]
Geezer Offline
apprentice

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 44
INTERESTING FIND -- LOREMASTER REVEALS DIFFERENT CHANCE TO HIT!

Last night I was playing after my main character's Loremaster score had been boosted more than a few levels by gear (perhaps now at L4, maybe even L5). And when I "moused over" the foe while holding down CTRL I noticed something intriguing in the stat box displayed via Loremaster. While the attack cursor reported a 98% chance to hit, the enemy's stat box said "Chance To Hit: 61".

There was no "%" sign after the 61, but I think it's safe to assume that's 61%. Why such a difference between the two numbers (98% and 61%)? I have no idea. But it'd be interesting to find out.

- Geezer.


Edited by Geezer (08/29/14 01:52 PM)

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#548841 - 08/29/14 01:57 PM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Geezer]
Ludovician Offline
apprentice

Registered: 08/07/14
Posts: 28
I'm not sure of other factors but I can confirm that the chance-to-hit shown in combat does not take block chance into account. One of my characters has a 70% chance to block, but the chance to hit shown is 78-84%.

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#548879 - 08/29/14 07:46 PM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Geezer]
Rashar Offline
member

Registered: 08/07/14
Posts: 126
Loc: Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Geezer
INTERESTING FIND -- LOREMASTER REVEALS DIFFERENT CHANCE TO HIT!

Last night I was playing after my main character's Loremaster score had been boosted more than a few levels by gear (perhaps now at L4, maybe even L5). And when I "moused over" the foe while holding down CTRL I noticed something intriguing in the stat box displayed via Loremaster. While the attack cursor reported a 98% chance to hit, the enemy's stat box said "Chance To Hit: 61".

There was no "%" sign after the 61, but I think it's safe to assume that's 61%. Why such a difference between the two numbers (98% and 61%)? I have no idea. But it'd be interesting to find out.

- Geezer.


Loremaster reveals their to hit chance...

With kind regards,

Rashar.

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#548894 - 08/29/14 10:58 PM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Ludovician]
teardropmina Offline
member

Registered: 08/05/14
Posts: 173
Originally Posted By: Ludovician
I'm not sure of other factors but I can confirm that the chance-to-hit shown in combat does not take block chance into account. One of my characters has a 70% chance to block, but the chance to hit shown is 78-84%.


a blocked shot isn't a miss; it did hit, but being blocked. very much like damage absorbed by armor; it's just that a successful block avoids all damage.

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#548956 - 08/30/14 07:54 AM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Geezer]
prodigydancer Offline
apprentice

Registered: 08/09/14
Posts: 30
I know that probably is a b.... and that with 80% CTH you can still miss 10 times in a row and it doesn't have to be a bug.

But - from experience - this means that anything combat related with a chance of success below 90% is unreliable to the point of being mostly useless. 70% = completely useless. Not just in D:OS. In any game.


Edited by prodigydancer (08/30/14 07:54 AM)

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#598139 - 01/10/17 09:52 AM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Geezer]
Rithrin Offline
stranger

Registered: 01/10/17
Posts: 1
So here is a question I'm having trouble answering. My main character has 16 str, 2 pts in 2h weapons, and is using a flaming 2h sword. Sebille has 17 finesse, 2 pts in ranged, and is using a crossbow. The Red Prince is using a dagger and shield, has 11 str and 10 finesse, 1 pt in 1h weapons. I was having no trouble yesterday, was fighting source hounds, magisters, undead, and other random creatures. Today, Sebille and I can't hit anything, worst streak was 16 misses on targets listed at 100% advertised chance to hit. Red Prince hasn't missed. Ever. We are 1-2 levels above the targets, weapons are all level 4, and we are fighting largely the same targets. I'm barely past the fort playing on classic.


Edit: Reloading a save seems to have fixed it for me. Trying to slog through battles with half the party unable to hit the broad side of Rivellon makes for an interesting challenge.


Edited by Rithrin (01/10/17 04:00 PM)
Edit Reason: found a possible fix.

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#598510 - 01/16/17 11:36 AM Re: Is Displayed "To Hit" % Correct? (missing a lot) [Re: Rithrin]
Kalrakh Offline

old hand

Registered: 10/03/16
Posts: 797
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Rithrin
So here is a question I'm having trouble answering. My main character has 16 str, 2 pts in 2h weapons, and is using a flaming 2h sword. Sebille has 17 finesse, 2 pts in ranged, and is using a crossbow. The Red Prince is using a dagger and shield, has 11 str and 10 finesse, 1 pt in 1h weapons. I was having no trouble yesterday, was fighting source hounds, magisters, undead, and other random creatures. Today, Sebille and I can't hit anything, worst streak was 16 misses on targets listed at 100% advertised chance to hit. Red Prince hasn't missed. Ever. We are 1-2 levels above the targets, weapons are all level 4, and we are fighting largely the same targets. I'm barely past the fort playing on classic.


Edit: Reloading a save seems to have fixed it for me. Trying to slog through battles with half the party unable to hit the broad side of Rivellon makes for an interesting challenge.


This is a D:OS topic, not D:OS2 btw. Blind seems to have lasting after effects, solvable by reload. wink

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