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#579735 - 02/26/16 10:44 AM Twin Wands Witch support build - Is it viable?
Manu83 Offline
apprentice

Registered: 02/25/16
Posts: 43
Loc: Italy
Hi all fellow Originalsinners! In my other thread, I'm trying to build my ideal party. Read in another thread that 2weapon wand mages really kick some a**es, so I felt it was a good idea to just put it down into a build, gather your opinions and maybe be useful for someone else beyond me. In my party, she'd be my 2nd main char, and according to some advice I have been given, she should be a Witch. Now... Pyro is not available from companions, so I usually get it with my 2nd char. Witchcraft should be the main school, so we'll get a nice buffer/debuffer mage. Now..throw in your ideas, whatever comes to your mind. Let's hear it!

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#579806 - 02/28/16 03:37 PM Re: Twin Wands Witch support build - Is it viable? [Re: Manu83]
Manu83 Offline
apprentice

Registered: 02/25/16
Posts: 43
Loc: Italy
Noone? frown

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#579816 - 02/28/16 11:42 PM Re: Twin Wands Witch support build - Is it viable? [Re: Manu83]
Chrest Offline
member

Registered: 11/04/14
Posts: 186
You don't sound very experienced in the game, so engaging would be like baseless banter.

Enjoy the game, two wands mage is ok.

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#579818 - 02/29/16 02:29 AM Re: Twin Wands Witch support build - Is it viable? [Re: Manu83]
Raze Offline



Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 25386
Loc: Canada

It should work fine. I have not tried that build, but it shouldn't be that different than other dual wand using mages.

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#579832 - 02/29/16 12:37 PM Re: Twin Wands Witch support build - Is it viable? [Re: Manu83]
Manu83 Offline
apprentice

Registered: 02/25/16
Posts: 43
Loc: Italy
@Chrest Of course I'm not experienced in the game, or I wouldn't open a thread to ask information! It may be useless for you.. for me it's more than useful..

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#579834 - 02/29/16 03:24 PM Re: Twin Wands Witch support build - Is it viable? [Re: Manu83]
unclejoe1917 Offline
apprentice

Registered: 01/25/16
Posts: 27
Originally Posted By: Manu83
@Chrest Of course I'm not experienced in the game, or I wouldn't open a thread to ask information! It may be useless for you.. for me it's more than useful..

Sono d'accordo. You asked a perfectly reasonable question for discussion and did not deserve to be met with such a crappy, condescending tone. It must not have been a completely useless if they took the time to reply.

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#579859 - 03/01/16 10:28 PM Re: Twin Wands Witch support build - Is it viable? [Re: Manu83]
Chrest Offline
member

Registered: 11/04/14
Posts: 186
I was just reacting to him doubleposting and asking why nobody is answering.

I was saying that him being new to the game means that I can't transfer any knowledge or exchanges meaningfully any ideas because he doesn't have the base to get it. I'm not saying he's stupid, I'm saying that he lacks experience: I could say anything and he wouldn't be able to tell. Best thing to do is to start playing.

The only thing I could do is reassure him and say that double wand mage is ok he shouldn't be stuck from indecision.

Thanks for saying that my tone was condescending and crappy. You can go fuck yourself.


Edited by Chrest (03/01/16 10:33 PM)

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#579924 - 03/03/16 02:27 PM Re: Twin Wands Witch support build - Is it viable? [Re: Manu83]
unclejoe1917 Offline
apprentice

Registered: 01/25/16
Posts: 27
My initial instinct if I don't feel someone would benefit from my help would be to just not reply rather than announcing that answering their question would be useless. I will agree that there is no substitute for just picking up the game and trying stuff. It doesn't hurt to throw two bits worth of advice at someone if they are asking for it though. The guy seems really enthusiastic about the game and is eager to engage in discussion about it. I can respect that.

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#579925 - 03/03/16 02:51 PM Re: Twin Wands Witch support build - Is it viable? [Re: Manu83]
gGeo Offline
addict

Registered: 02/24/15
Posts: 427
The idea is one of the most powerful builds.

Double wands works when you have at least 3 point in dual wepon and one point in wands. Its lots skillpoint. Start investthere after 6th level. 1-6 level you get just one skill point per level. e.g. you would need dump all your points there to overcome barrier. Which makes your character pretty flat.

In first 6 levels put points to magic skills rather. And other skills (Will, Bodybuilding) Dont use wands for attack. Only for spells. This way you get a versatile character. Remember first point in any magic school has best reward. Only Hydro worth 4 skill level because of Hail. Focus to get spells Witch - Low Will and Charm. Those two spells combo is badass. Two mages in group which both of them uses this combo in first turn that is like a cheat. laugh

After the 6th level, dump all point to wands. To get power of Wands. 5th skill level of dual weapon gives attack for 3AP. Which is insane. Consider, 15 skill points to get there is a lot, you will not have much points for traditional spells.


Edited by gGeo (03/03/16 02:57 PM)

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#579926 - 03/03/16 02:55 PM Re: Twin Wands Witch support build - Is it viable? [Re: Manu83]
Chrest Offline
member

Registered: 11/04/14
Posts: 186
Although I understand where you come from and I esteem the ideas you try to lay out here (I generally try to abide by them, strangely for egotistical reasons), you make a little too much value judgements for that idea to have any practical use.

And furthermore, it is a little bit hypocritical.

You assume I didn't think my answer would be beneficial, as if you are the judge. And you try to project your ideals on me aswell: your civility is your own, do not expect me to abide by the same personal rules.
And if you avoid engaging with people if you think it won't be beneficial, why belittle me? Was it truly necessary if your aim was to being kind to the OP, and comfort him? What benefit does it provide me to be called crappy and condescending when I am not?

Especially since OP defended his position perfectly well. He stated he was perfectly OK with being inexperienced (and indeed, it is not a fault), and stated that he thought collecting a lot of advice was surely beneficial to him (to which I disagree, but we simply agree to disagree).

I have noticed that the OP is quite excited about the game, and try to communicate his enthusiasm before even playing the game. That's cool and that's not my business, but I noticed that he was collecting a lot of bad advice because the people reacting to his enthusiasm were probably mostly people like him: inexperienced and enthusiasts aswell. He was attracting his own kind. Thus, I thought that me throwing more advice (even good advice) was not a good idea. There is already too much noise in his head. Playing the game will make him discard the noise (the faulty advice). It is the only way in my opinion, as he is unable to tell what is actually good advice in his current state.

Since he was inquiring about dual wands mages, I simply stated they were OK.

You yourself admitted you were new to the game aswell I believe?

It is not always nice to be nice.

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#579927 - 03/03/16 04:25 PM Re: Twin Wands Witch support build - Is it viable? [Re: Manu83]
Manu83 Offline
apprentice

Registered: 02/25/16
Posts: 43
Loc: Italy
Ok, ok, first of all... It's not that I am "completely unexperienced", but it's that I like to build a party which completely satisfies me. So the advices I'm collecting are more like "if I walk this path, will it Always be good throughout the Whole game?" It's more like...technical stuff I'm looking for. That is... Two wands are ok, but... are they fun? Will they be fun throughout the Whole run? Will I need something more than wands? In which order and priority should I pick other things? So, really... no need to raise a fuss for nothing... I appreciate both of you (and others too) giving me your advices, it will be up to me then, to test them in-game.

Everyone's got his attitude, there's not a wrong or right one..as long as we respect each other.

Peace. smile

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#609172 - 09/06/17 04:14 AM Re: Twin Wands Witch support build - Is it viable? [Re: Manu83]
Dirtmagurt Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/06/17
Posts: 1
@Manu83 I made an account exclusively for this question for two reasons one. One, I considered a similar witchcraft build and dual-wielding. Two, Chrest is such an asshole I couldn't resist. Before I throw in my opinions, Chrest wasted paragraphs explaining himself because he refused to help someone because he assumed you were a inept. Dude, get off your high-horse, no-one gives a flying fuck... whether you think you helping someone you deem unprepared to receive your insight is good or bad. These forums are made to help people, not helping someone despite their comprehension, is still not helpful; so why are you here. I honestly believe you don't have a clue about the subject matter and just want to insert your ego. Has the thought ever crossed your mind that even though he didn't understand what you might have said to help, could then be used as a reference to come back to? No you didn't cause your retarded, moving on...

No, this build you speak of is not just OK, I see you been on the forums for quite some time now so you've probably already done this build but just in case, its awesome. Let's go over why this build is awesome; dual-wielding and wand skills stack, which means that this will be the strongest caster build late game for single targeting. This is because, dual-wielding as you know reduces the cost of AP to -3 at level 5, meaning you have one wand doing damage for free. Combine this with 50% damage boost at level 5 with wand skill and your nnow doing 100% more damage.

Though, that is only the weapon skills... The reason why you were most likely advised Witchcraft is because it's great for supplementing weapon builds. Witchcraft works fucking gorgeously with dual-wielding wands because of Oath of Desecration and Lower Resistances, two skills that are only novice btw. OoD is going to buff your damage by an additional 40% and Lower Resistances is going to soften up any elemental sponges. So that's 140% damage, combined with a softened up enemy depending on their resistances.

In short, your going to be wreaking face! That is not an understatement, this build is so powerful but the fun does not end there. Optimizing this build with glass cannon would be a must in my opinion. Your going to be doubling your turn action points meaning 7 turns into 14. You will be presented with two options at this point with the build: one would be to pump as many points into Int to decrease cooldowns on buffs and de-buffs or the other is to beef your Con and Spd so that after each turn you can attack 6 TIMES OR MORE! Depending on how much you invest into those stats. As stated, glass cannon would turn what you perceive to be a support into one of, if not the best ranged damage dealer in the game. I'll leave the math to you be if you get your Spd to where your getting 9 actions points a turn combining, that turns into 18 with glass cannon and if you level you Con so that action points max 18 you'll have a full AP bar every turn.

This build has so much flexibility with attributes that you could experiment with Precision to increase your crit-chance, which could double that 140% damage on a more consistent basis making it a decent to good burst damage build depending on stat investment. Umm, you might be able to craft wands with the critical chance buff at crafting 5 MAYBE I'm super unsure about that but you might find it worth your time to find out because that could make this a super viable crit build that would easily out dpt anything in this game.

This is obviously only viable for mid-late game usage as dual-wielding would need to be maxed. I'd strongly advise putting a couple points in crafting for one of characters and cheese the game with inferno grenades until you can get to a higher level; all early game mage builds are very underwhelming, that's just a fact, unless you optimism with glass cannon but it's still underwhelming.

That's my super long advice, hope you read it even though I'm a year and half late. I know so much about this game unlike Chrest and I hope that you found my comment helpful.

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#610486 - 09/14/17 12:18 AM Re: Twin Wands Witch support build - Is it viable? [Re: Dirtmagurt]
ExecutiveCivic Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/14/17
Posts: 56
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
I am playing this build in Tactician right now with a double mage party (Jahan being one of them), both using the 2x wand build, a Cleric sword and shield + tank build, and Bairdotr as her base marksman build.

My two mages control almost every battle. Every fight I've gotten into in Tactician mode has been a breeze.

For example:
Click to reveal..
First try Braccus Rex fight - beat it with no deaths, hardly took any damage either, using clever sneak positioning with Bairdotr to one-shot the Galvanizing/Immunity Aura totems and the mages with WATER WANDS, which destroyed everything in that fight no problem (A lot of people mention how tough this fight is in Tactician - it was extremely easy). Twins-by-fire-joined got Two-shotted by water wands... everything else there is crazy weak to water damage and were done before they could get an attack out.


The dual wield wand build works not only with Witchcraft, but with hybrid elemental mage builds as well for some of the same reasons Dirtmagurt stated.

You don't even need to invest the full 5 points into Dual Wield to be able to use them to their fullest potential. You can go +4 Wands base and get the additional skill added by your chest armor, and +4 Dual Wield (+1 Added by Belt) which leaves you 10 ability points to spend elsewhere, like on Body Building or Willpower later on in the game (which are also undervalued but hugely beneficial). And you'll still have enough skill points to use two spell schools at level 5 and apply a vast number of points into other abilities as well....

Another benefit is the Leadership ability - an ability that a lot of people undervalue but is so ridiculously overpowered that it's almost not an option in Tactician. If one of your main characters has the Righteous trait, you can get +6 leadership on him/her by dual wielding +Leadership wands, using a +Leadership helmet, +Righteous, and investing only 3 ability points (Level 2 base) for level 6 Leadership.

Wands can also get +3 CON or +3 Int as well, makes them insanely viable to re-stack health if you want to go Glass Cannon, or do more damage with your spells, though I prefer to go +3Con/+3Con every time. I end up with more health than if I go +Speed/non glass cannon using Daggers to get the AP (due to not having to waste enchantment slots or base attribute slots into DEX to use daggers). Which allows me to add even more CON or INT into the build via base points or other items and more AP per turn.

You can also get pure Tenebrium damage wands, and in late game they will end up doing close to the damage you can get on a crafted superior daggers. Most enemies don't resist Tenebrium, even in Tactician mode.

On top of that, Wands can crit where spells cannot. And they are ranged which keeps your spellcasters who use them away from the fray while designated tanks help control the battlefield with knockdowns and Taunt. And they are not limited to using their attacks once per turn like "Staff of ____".

If you ever find that your enemies are completely immune to Elemental damage (in Tactician this is very common), Tenebrium will destroy them. In early / Mid-game - What's more is that if you reverse wand damage type from your elemental spell damage type, you can basically ensure that any spellcaster whose spells are rendered useless due to enemy immunity, will still remain incredibly useful in a battle (Using Water+Air wands duo with a Pyro/Geo build for example, or the opposite - using Fire+Earth wands on a Hydro/Aero build).

I'm sure I'm missing something as I typed this rather hastily to head out to the store before it closes. But I hope this helps.
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